Interesting Colgan transcript tidbits

[CopilotDoug]

With that said, the caliber of the pilots at the regionals, especially today is something that needs to be studied... the type of person that would work for $17K a year with in this environment where the majors all still have 1000's on furlough and no hiring in sight has to be a person that lacks a certain maturity and quality about them, i.e Caliber.

Quality people seek good paying jobs, or if they're going to work for poor wages, they will have an endgame and an end in sight for accepting those wages...

And this is a valid point and another contributing factor. Many of the products cranked out by the pilot-mills (a la GIA) are approaching aviation from a totally different mindset. The regional airline they're at isn't so much a chance to gain and learn valuable experience...it's a just a means to get in that coveted left seat at Southwest...or Airtran. It's how they fundamentally approach flying: Take the quickest path of least resistance. Inevitably, some can't hack it and look for "shelters" to keep them off the line. They're known as union reps.

 

[DX Rick]

No, I wouldn't, but I generally avoid most regional flights because of the lack of experience up front. But, and this is important, I DON'T BLAME MY FELLOW PILOTS, I BLAME MANAGEMENT AND THE SYSTEM!!!!! This crew wasn't at fault for not having the proper experience. Management and the FAA told them that they were perfectly qualified to fly this airplane in this environment. If the FAA had proper minimums for flying Part 121, then this couldn't have happened. If management had cared more about finding qualified applicants, even if meant paying more to get them, then this wouldn't have happened. If management and the FAA would provide schedules that don't induce fatigue, then this wouldn't have happened. If management hadn't intimidated this FO into not calling in sick, then this wouldn't have happened. Seeing a trend here?

Many things contribute to an accident. Just placing blame on the pilots does no good. The inexperienced pilots were placed in this situation by negligent managers and government bureaucrats that care more about protecting commerce than customers. Focus on the true culprits, not the pilots that paid for their inexperience with their own lives.

He was just as experienced as you. Both GIA grads.

 

[flynryan15]

He was just as experienced as you. Both GIA grads.

DING DING DING we have a winner!

 

[LazyLightnin']

He was just as experienced as you. Both GIA grads.

You know how the saying goes, you forget what you pay for.

 

[oceandude]

ahhhh...the microwave generation rears its ugly head...sad it had to come to this.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Both you and SEVEN are totally missing the point. Why were these pilots in this cockpit in the first place?

You know why I would never put my loved ones on a regional airline? Because of the lack of pay and poor quality of life that these pilots are faced with.

I know what its like to be overworked and underpaid. You make basic, silly mistakes. If you say that you would never make a basic mistake while fatigued you have never been fatigued.

I can't understand how other pilots who are working in terrible conditions can hang other pilots out to dry who were forced to work in terrible conditions.

No one has even mentioned that the SIC was suffering from some kind of inner ear condition. Way to stand up for each other guys.

Again I am ashamed to be a pilot. No safety improvements will come from these 50 deaths that you both seem so concerned about until the FAA addresses low pilot pay and fatigue.

I will make it simple. Those of us who have worked for the worst of the worst(TSA late 90s) know all to well, to have a chance of living to go home, we had to have an enhanced sense of survival. That meant we not only had to look forward, we had to watch out for the harpoon coming from behind us. Icing is easy, flight managers who threaten crews for various reasons are the tough ones, I had a manager tell me "if you won't fly it we will find someone who will". Pilot pay and work rules are not the central theme here, the f/o just had what, 22 days off and commuted in at the last minute. personal responsibility is the question here, bad work rules and chitty companies doesn't relieve the pilot from doing the right thing(comming to work rested and not sick), it just makes it harder. Do I feel bad for the pilots families, yup, the pax families, you betcha! I just wish the pilots had stayed home and stuck loaded shotguns into their pie holes and pulled the triggers and this would have just been a wierd double suicide instead of mass manslaughter event. The rules won't change, these pilots killed the pax and themselves via incompetence. Low pay and fatigue RULES are not factors here, sorry, basic competence is though.
Harsh, yup, but then so are 50 needless deaths!
PBR

 

[CopilotDoug]

He was just as experienced as you. Both GIA grads.

With any luck, PCL will be elected as an ALPA rep at AirTran. Then the flying public won't be exposed to the dangers of his sub-par flying abilities.

 

[slider]

So what I'm hearing from you is that these pilots should have no responsibility in this because it's everyone elses fault?

These pilots made basic mistakes that have made families who lost their loved ones suffer needlessly. These families will have to endure pain the rest of their lives. This accident should have never happened.

Why don't you express yourself to the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, loved ones who lost family on this flight and see how much empathy you get.

If it was your loved ones on that flight would you still be coddling and making excuses for the pilots?

What is it with people like you? How did you all of a sudden come to the extreme conclusion that the pilots had no responsibility whatsoever from what BushwickBill said… are you mental? This is exactly what is wrong with our industry and even our country as a whole. This binary thinking which is so basic and elementary not only to the human mind but even in the animal kingdom has led to normal issues becoming divisive and has taken divisive issues and magnified them. If you do not posses the ability to keep things in context or conceptualize proper context then please recognize that limitation within yourself and keep our opinion to yourself. Realize that you are doing no good in furthering the discussion and ultimately resolving the matter resulting in a safer more equitable system for all involved. This type of emotional, quarrelsome reasoning… right v. wrong, liberal v. conservative, yes or no, black or white has got to stop right NOW, it is employed by agenda driven individuals, and has no place in a coherent, analysis oriented discussion.

 

[BushwickBill]

What is it with people like you? How did you all of a sudden come to the extreme conclusion that the pilots had no responsibility whatsoever from what BushwickBill said… are you mental? This is exactly what is wrong with our industry and even our country as a whole. This binary thinking which is so basic and elementary not only to the human mind but even in the animal kingdom has led to normal issues becoming divisive and has taken divisive issues and magnified them. If you do not posses the ability to keep things in context or conceptualize proper context then please recognize that limitation within yourself and keep our opinion to yourself. Realize that you are doing no good in furthering the discussion and ultimately resolving the matter resulting in a safer more equitable system for all involved. This type of emotional, quarrelsome reasoning… right v. wrong, liberal v. conservative, yes or no, black or white has got to stop right NOW, it is employed by agenda driven individuals, and has no place in a coherent, analysis oriented discussion.

Nice. Thanks.

 

[HA25]

What is it with people like you? How did you all of a sudden come to the extreme conclusion that the pilots had no responsibility whatsoever from what BushwickBill said… are you mental? This is exactly what is wrong with our industry and even our country as a whole. This binary thinking which is so basic and elementary not only to the human mind but even in the animal kingdom has led to normal issues becoming divisive and has taken divisive issues and magnified them. If you do not posses the ability to keep things in context or conceptualize proper context then please recognize that limitation within yourself and keep our opinion to yourself. Realize that you are doing no good in furthering the discussion and ultimately resolving the matter resulting in a safer more equitable system for all involved. This type of emotional, quarrelsome reasoning… right v. wrong, liberal v. conservative, yes or no, black or white has got to stop right NOW, it is employed by agenda driven individuals, and has no place in a coherent, analysis oriented discussion.

Well said, I like this a lot.

BTW, is that Bianca Beauchamp in your Avitar? if so PM me for an interesting tidbit.