Integration Day

[gutshotdraw]

I understand where you're coming from but you have to accept the fact that RTS isn't your best friend and he HAS indeed lied to all of you on several occasions. The fact that someone took the job under certain pretenses means nothing to me. You yourself said that things change. I can sympathize with you that it's not right to be misled, but remember that it wasn't us (NJA pilots) that misled you. We've been talking about single carrier and how it's eventually going to happen for years. This didn't just start a few years ago.

No matter what RTS promised you guys, the letter of the law states how things are going to be. It's very cut and dry. If RTS wants to upgrade all of the FOs to PIC, that's great. To me, it only means that several NJA pilots are going to get to upgrade/ transition over to the G-IV as well. Is it a one out of three for PIC upgrades or is it a one for one? Too lazy to look it up right now. Nevertheless, it benefits NJA pilots just as much as it benefits the NJI guys.

Keep in mind that this "drop dead" date you keep talking about is only about 2 months away so if RTS is going to pull a stunt like this, he better start doing it soon. I hope he has sim slots reserved for all this BS...

It is anything but "cut and dried." That's why it is called a negotiation. There hasn't been a court order so there is no "letter of the law." The terms of the integration will be finalized over the next couple of months, then it will be announced, and there will be a phase-in period. The agreement will specify when future positions will be filled according to company-wide bid. It will be either a calendar date or after a specific class has upgraded. Until then, status quo.

As for RTS misleading me, the only time he ever did that was when he showed up 1:15 early for a flight to Belmar :0 Regardless, the integration won't affect me in the slightest except to see the paycheck go up in one column (overtime) and go down in another (dues). I'm fortunate enough to be senior to about 84% of the combined list so that won't be an issue personally. Nevertheless, I am paying close attention to the process because of the many friends on both sides of the company and how it might affect them.

 

[G200_PILOT]

It is anything but "cut and dried." That's why it is called a negotiation. There hasn't been a court order so there is no "letter of the law." The terms of the integration will be finalized over the next couple of months, then it will be announced, and there will be a phase-in period. The agreement will specify when future positions will be filled according to company-wide bid. It will be either a calendar date or after a specific class has upgraded. Until then, status quo.

.

This tells me that you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. There are LOAs in place that make this VERY cut and dry when it comes to current upgrades. I suggest you do a little bit of research and read them fully, about three or four times. The option for RTS to say "OK, all you FOs are upgrading tomorrow" is there, however, he'll also have to spend the extra cash to upgrade/transition the NJA guys. Go read it and then come back and tell me that it's not cut and dry.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I've tried to be civil. I've tried to answer questions that were asked. And yes, I know more about this little corporate disaster than you do. In a couple of months, we'll find out who was right and who wasn't.

In the meantime, do us all a favor and bid the Falcon or something else besides the G. 326 people will thank you for it.

And by the way, the phrase is CUT AND DRIED. Not DRY, it's DRIED.

 

[Pervis]

Gutshot, we will all have to deal with those on both sides unable or unwilling to get along or accept everything that will come down. It is like that now in each of our own world. I'm sure you folks have some real tooells too.

One thing you do need to consider, which you probably do. Nothing you people have been told is in writing, so I would not hold my breath. We have all kinds of "interpretation" issues with a written contract, so anything told or promised means nothing without some kind of written agreement. And even then there are all kinds of questions.

As far as some FO's upgrading before the most junior PIC on this side-who cares? There will always be a very small group who benefits greatly and the same for those that appear to get the shaft. Bottom line is the long tem. We will all benefit from one familiy with one goal-profit-through being the industry leader. We all win. Even our competitors, as the standard for wages and work rules come from the leaders.

 

[RTRHD]

Oh Nevermind

 

[gutshotdraw]

Pervis, you are absolutely correct. The only thing in writing so far is the LOA from the IBB contract that provides a FRAMEWORK for the integration. The entire point (which has clearly been missed by some), is that there will be a document spelling out the details and the timeline of the integration. Until then, it is all so much BLATHER.

 

[172driver]

Because

1. We haven't integrated yet and the VSL is not yet binding in any way.
2. When pilots were hired prior to the contract in November 2005, they were told there was zero prospect of a union on the property and they would upgrade based on aircraft deliveries at NJI and they made their decision to accept the position based on that information.
3. They have been repeatedly told ever since that they would upgrade "unencumbered" by NJA pilots joining the NJI operation.

What you were told means absolutely nothing. That's one of the major reasons to be in a union -- you can take all that stuff you're being told and put it in a legally binding contract.

1. Not yet, but soon.
2. That obviously didn't happen.
3. If number 2 didn't happen, why would you believe number 3?

 

[CastofThousands]

LOA 01-013 B

One pilot group, one seniority list, one collective bargaining agreement. The seniority list has already been agreed to aka the "Virtual Seniority List" to be know as the "NetJets Aviation Pilots Seniority List." In addition, the 2007 collective bargaining agreement (Basic Agreement) will remain in effect, as written, for all pilots on the "NetJets Aviation Pilots Seniority List" as defined in Section 1 of the Basic Agreement. LOA 01-013 is part of the Basic Agreement, among other LOA's.

There will be no additional agreements. IF the Company self recognizes the Basic Agreement will be effective no later than November 21, 2010. NJI pilot union membership/dues won't be required until the Basic Agreement goes into effect at NJI; the scope, wages, benefits, and work rules of the Basic Agreement will go into effect at the common carrier (NJI/NJA/NJLA) no later than November 21, 2010.

IF the Company self recognizes, for the period between the recognition notice and the effective date of the Basic Agreement at NJI, the amalgamation of scope, wages, benefits, and work rules will be implemented at NJI (like NJA/NJLA).

Ideally, to the extent possible, the best of all worlds (NJI/NJA/NJLA) will be the result; which means NJI will need to conform to the Basic Agreement and NJA will need to begin treating the NJA pilot force more professionally.

NJI, NJA, and NJLA will remain individual Operating Certificates - while common [best] practices, [professional] policies, and [operational] methods prevail.

NJI/NJA/NJLA will maintain their current operations centers.

Good luck to all,

 

[Ultra Grump]

And there ya have it.

 

[RTRHD]

Will someone answer how much are dues.