Instrument long x-c with CFI??

[flyboy168]

Hi,

My student was wondering if he has to fly the instrument long x-c trip (250nm trip) with a CFI-I rather than a CFI. In looking at FAR 61-65(d)(iii), there are no mention of specific CFII requirement except for the word "instrument training".

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

[wheelsup]

Hi,

My student was wondering if he has to fly the instrument long x-c trip (250nm trip) with a CFI-I rather than a CFI. In looking at FAR 61-65(d)(iii), there are no mention of specific CFII requirement except for the word "instrument training".

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

The CFI can't give "instrument training" except for the 3 hours for a PPL license, as I understand it.

~wheelsup

 

[NoPax]

The CFI can't give "instrument training" except for the 3 hours for a PPL license, as I understand it.

~wheelsup

...& Commercial Certificate.

An examiner I talked to explained that a CFI can do IFR cross-countries with a Private Pilot to meet the 40 hours of actual/instrument time requirement, but the qualifying cross-country must have a CFII.

An easy way to think about it is - as a CFI you can give all training that was tested or could have been tested in the CFI PTS (provided you are endorsed or appropriately rated) - Flight Reviews and training for initial issuance of, Recreatational, Private, Commerical, CFI training, including high-altitude, high performance, complex, tailwheel if the CFI has those endorsements.

This doesn't include your Instrument Rating, as there is a separate instructor certificate with an instrument rating tagged on it - CFII. The requirements of 61.65 were heavily covered in my CFII checkride.

 

[minitour]

The long IFR cross country is considered training for an issuance of the instrument rating so yes...you've gotta have the CFII.

-mini

 

[Fly_Chick]

Not sure about that. Both

61.65 (d)(2)(i) (fifteen hours of instrument flight training)

and 61.65 (d)(2)(ii) (three hours in the past 60 days of prep)

state "from an authorized instructor" in this case 'authorized instructor' meaning CFI-I.

61.65(d)(2)(iii) does not mention "authorized instructor".

 

[wheelsup]

Not sure about that. Both

61.65 (d)(2)(i) (fifteen hours of instrument flight training)

and 61.65 (d)(2)(ii) (three hours in the past 60 days of prep)

state "from an authorized instructor" in this case 'authorized instructor' meaning CFI-I.

61.65(d)(2)(iii) does not mention "authorized instructor".

The words "instrument training" are lacking in the PPL 61 rules, leading me to believe a CFI isn't giving "instrument training" to a PPL student at all.

Also, quote 61.65 (d)(2)(iii) **IFR Xcty's**

For an instrument-airplane rating, instrument training on cross-country flight procedures specific to airplanes that includes at least one...blah blah blah

Under 61.195 - Flight Instructor limitations and qualifications

Quote 61.195 (c) **Instrument Ratings**

A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certficate and pilot certificate...blah blah blah.

'Nuff said. If you're giving instrument instruction, you need a CFI-I in my book. I wouldn't want to have the FAA examine my logbooks if I was this student (or instructor for sighing him off..).

~wheelsup

 

[flyboy168]

Thanks

Folks, thanks for the help. I have asked him to fly with a CFII to be on the safe side.

flyboy168

 

[wheelsup]

Folks, thanks for the help. I have asked him to fly with a CFII to be on the safe side.

flyboy168

Good call.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Folks, thanks for the help. I have asked him to fly with a CFII to be on the safe side.

Good idea. Complying with what the rules require for the qualifying flight is usually the safe side.

I don't understand why was there even a question about it.

 

[BLing]

If you dont have the rating on your CFI certificate, dont bother trying to teach it is a good way to avoid problems! However, I have them all so I dont care about issues like this!