Instrument long x-c with CFI??

[luvz2fli]

I guess my line of thinking is this....

If I have a question regarding regs, I get the regs out and read them to see if I can answer the question myself. The only reason I said to read the regs is because that is the only place to find the right answer in the first place. not to be an ass. Just because a bunch of people on the message board say it is so, doesn't mean it is. I was in the same boat myself during my CFI oral, and I looked up the answer and we talked about it. As a CFI, you CAN give instrument training to a student going for his/her instrument rating. Only 15 hours of the 40 total has to be given by an "authorized" or II.
Had I not been asked this question by the FAA, I wouldn't know the answer myself.

OK, cool deal. Thanks for your response. We all now know that if training for the instrument ticket, you need a CFII for the 15 hours. As for the FARs, I try and read and understand them but they are so loose for interpretation in so many cases that it's tough to know what they mean. For example the whole back seat CFI deal that's on another thread. Very open to interpretation IMO based on the regs. Also can somebody please answer my post about giving dual? I'd like to try and fly with a guy and a response to this would be appreciated.

 

[Ole Red]

I agree about the regs. They can seem so simple and yet be so confusing at the same time. And actually, even though the examiner agreed with me, if I'm wrong, it doesn't matter what they said at the FSDO (in court) they could still nail me.
Personally, I agree with what most said in the above posts. There is a reason for the CFII. I am not a II and I don't plan on giving instrument instruction to any instrument students. I'll save that for when I get my II.

Later

 

[NoPax]

The instrument student needs 15 hours minimum from a CFII...the rest of the time can be with a safety pilot

Safe...probably not. Legal...yes.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Answer.......


It is the amount of hours a CFI can instruct an instrument student and be perfectly legal.

Nope. Sorry, but if you want to get technical about it, that's the wrong answer.

40-15 is the minimum amount of actual or simulated instrument time, exclusive of required instrument instruction, that an instrument student must accumulate in order to qualify to take the instrument practical test.

It can be accumulated via training with a CFII, training with a CFI, or tooling along under the hood in the afternoon with a friend who got his private ticket that morning.

A CFI (no II) can instruct an instrument student and be perfectly legal for an unlimited number of hours, not just 25. But whether 1 or 2000, none of it is considered "instrument training" that counts toward the training time required for the instrument rating.

Read the reg again more carefully next time.

 

[Ole Red]

Thanks Mark.

So if I understand you right, that time flying with the CFI (say all 25 of the remaining required instrument time) would NOT count as instrument instruction, and just count as plain old hood time.??

On the other hand, if I'm understanding, the CFI could not log that time as dual given?? Even if he is teaching, as far as the FAA is concerned, he's just a super qualified safety pilot??

 

[aucfi]

On the other hand, if I'm understanding, the CFI could not log that time as dual given??

You log it as dual given when giving private students their 3 hours of hood time so why not when its the average joe blow not seeking his IR. Dont forget the PIC either....

 

[Ole Red]

I was talking about a student flying towards his IR.

 

[nosehair]

On the other hand, if I'm understanding, the CFI could not log that time as dual given?? Even if he is teaching, as far as the FAA is concerned, he's just a super qualified safety pilot??

No, Red. A CFI can log dual given on an instrument training flight. It just won't count for any of the 15 hours required for the IR. And the instrument X/C is required to be with a double I. But all training given in a single engine airplane (if that is what the CFI has) can be dual. It just can't count towards any minimum time requirement that requires additional ratings or experience. For instance, a CFI applicant must be trained by a 2-year. That means a 2-year must do enough training to sign him off, but a junior CFI can give instruction towards that CFI, it just won't count as that specific kind of training, but the CFI can log it.

 

[Ole Red]

Got it. Thanks

 

[midlifeflyer]

So if I understand you right, that time flying with the CFI (say all 25 of the remaining required instrument time) would NOT count as instrument instruction, and just count as plain old hood time.??

Nosehair answered your question. This is just one of those semantic "technicalities."

The work done with the one-I is technically =not= instrument instruction (although definitely dual as nosehair explained). As I said, it's a semantic technicality, but "instrument training" and "instrument instruction" are buzzwords in the FAR. When you see those phrases in an FAA reg, they mean "instrument training by a CFII." Notice that the hood work done for the private certificate does =not= use either phrase.

Sometimes helps to know this when reading the regs.