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Input on the Astra, please?

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PHX767

it's a dry heat
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Posts
349
There may be an Astra in our future. I know basically nothing about them except that they have 2 engines. :)

Looked at both the IAI and Gulfstream sites, not much practical info.

We are in the desert southwest, flying mostly west coast with occasional trips to TX and rare trips to the NE.

Do they have APU's, ground air conditioning, single point refueling, external lav service, etc? How's the range? Hot and high performance? Avionics? The one we are looking at is about 10 years old.

Any input would be appreciated.
 
The Astra is a good plane. Click this link for some technical info.

From the SouthWest you'll be able to go anywhere in the lower 48, non-stop with a pretty full load of pax and luggage.

LeadSled can build one from memory using only a butterknife and scrap aluminum. He's the "go to" guy for the Astra.
 
If the Jet Commander 1121 is the "Lead Sled", and the 1124 is the "Jew Canoe", is the 1125 a "Yom Kipper Clipper"? Or is it the "Bagel Bomber"?

Another useless sunday afternoon pondering.
 
PHX767 said:
There may be an Astra in our future. I know basically nothing about them except that they have 2 engines. :)

Looked at both the IAI and Gulfstream sites, not much practical info.

We are in the desert southwest, flying mostly west coast with occasional trips to TX and rare trips to the NE.

Do they have APU's, ground air conditioning, single point refueling, external lav service, etc? How's the range? Hot and high performance? Avionics? The one we are looking at is about 10 years old.

Any input would be appreciated.
There are Astras and then there are Astras - which one are you looking at?

'Sled
 
PHX767...

This afternoon a friend asked me for essentially the same information, so I'll cut and paste from my reply to him.

“Gulfstreams” they aren’t; but as far as mid-sized jets go, they probably have more bang for the buck than anything out there. Astras come in three variants. They are known as Classics or the original Astra, the Astra SP, and the Astra SPX / Gulfstream G100. Systems wise, they are virtually identical across the board. (The Classics uses iron gyros and are heavily dependent on their AC system. The SP and later airplanes use AHARS and the AC system basically just powers the oil pressure gauges. They finally did away with the AC system on the G200 and G150.) The major differences between the three variants are AP/FD & Avionics packages and engines. Regardless, the systems are straight forward and reliable. (Once upon a time they had problems with the Slat/Flap system, but those have been resolved and if you maintain the airplane properly, it’s not an issue.)

I don’t have the exact serial number ranges in front of me, but Classics run up to about s/n 30. After that, they built about 10 Classics that had the SP’s aerodynamic mods. Around s/n 40 they started building SPs. The SPX came along in the high 70s. After Gulfstream bought the line, they essentially just changed the name to the G100. I know of no significant differences between the first SPX and the latest G100. From what you said (...it's about 10 years old...), I'm guessing that you're looking at an early SPX. If you, you're definately in for a treat.

Oh well, back to the differences between the models. The major differences between the Classic and the SP are few: The SP had gear doors that closed when the gear was extended and a shroud on the windshield wipers. The factory claimed a range increase with the SP, but that was mostly attributed to a modified climb profile. The major difference is that the Classic used an analog Collins EFIS 85 AP/FD and the SP uses a digital EFIS 86 system. There’s a major difference in the capabilites of the two systems. From a performance point of view, there’s no difference between a Classic and SP. That being said, the SP with its digital EFIS 86 is definitely worth the difference in price.

The differences between the SP and SPX/G100 are HUGE. The Classic and SP use the TFE731-3C engines @ 3,700 lbs of thrust. The SPX and G100 use the -40 engine at 4,200 lbs. The extra 1000 pounds of thrust takes the performance up an order of magnitude. The -3 powered airplanes cruise at 450 KTAS, the -40’s cruise at 470 KTAS. The -3 airplanes are happiest at FL350 through FL410. The -40 airplanes can go straight to FL410 and 430 on virtually any leg over 200 miles or so. FL450 is a usable altitude for the SPXs and G100s. They also burn less fuel on any given leg than the -3 airplanes. The SPX and G100 also have winglets which add to their “altitude” performance.

From an avionics standpoint, the SPX/G100 use the Collins Proline IV. Most SPXs and G100s come with Garrett APUs. They are rare on the Classics and SPs. As far as FMses go, you will find Classics and SPs with either the UNS1-C or GNS-Xls. The Universals are definitely the preferred box. I believe that all of the SPXs and G100s came with the UNS1-Cs.

Max gross takeoff weight is 24,650 for all of the airplanes up through the G100s. The BOW for most all Classics is in the 13,500 to 14,000 pound range. The SPs have BOWs in the 14,000 to 14,500 pound range. The SPXs and G100s are in the 14,500 to 15,000 range. All of the airplanes carry roughly 8700 pounds of fuel with standard fuel. They all have a removable “extension” tank that takes up 1/3 of the baggage compartment. With this tank installed the fuel capacity is roughly 9400 pounds.

If you’re thinking about flying an Astra over water there are a couple of things you need to consider - make sure you've got the long-range O2 system installed or you'll be carrying some portable bottles in the cabin. The rafts and survival gear also go into the cabin so you’re going to have to remove a seat or two to make room for them and in the later (heaver) airplanes, you're pretty much limited to 4 passenger seats. Like I said, the extension tank takes up about 1/3 of the baggage compartment, but with some creative packing you can make it work out. For domestic flying I never use the extension tank, so baggage is seldom an issue.

Do they have APU's, ground air conditioning, single point refueling, external lav service, etc? How's the range? Hot and high performance?
All in all, the SPX / G100 is a great compromise when it comes to real world flying. The Astras definitely don't have the biggest cabin, but it's big enough most of the time. If you fly it by the book, they will make book range figures day in and day out. With the SPX / G100, you can plan on a normal cruise between 460 and 470 KTAS and direct climb to FL410 on all but the warmest days. I use M.76 / 430 KTAS for most of my long-range oceanic flying. You've got to watch the C.G. - they tend to go out the forward end of the envelope (even with the APU installed) when you top off the tanks and put more than 5 (sometimes 6) passengers in them.

The APU is installed on a Duncan Aviation STC. Most of the newer G100s have them. Many SPXs also have them. They are installed on only a few of the Classics and SPs. Fueling in via Single point, but they have over the wing capability (actually over the fuselage.) Ground cooling is provided via bleed air either from an engine or from an APU depending upon the particular airplane. All of the airplane (except for a few of the very early serial numbers) have external lav servicing.

As far as flying them is concerned, they've got straight forward systems - there aren't too many "gotchas". They're easy to get good landings with - if you watch your speed on final. They handle crosswinds well, but (for boosted ailerons) they're a bit heavy in roll and "typical jet" in pitch. They do OK for a swept wing airplane - if you're careful, you can operate them out of 4,000' runways, but don't plan on going very far. 5,000' is, of course, better and 6,000'+ runways won't offer you too many restrictions even on the hottest of days.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any more information.

'Sled
 
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Thanks, guys!

I appreciate the link from HMR and the great info from Leadsled! :)

I'll sniff around and figure out what serial number is being considered.
 
If you need more info than Lead Sled provided, you weren't paying attention. I will give a few impressions from the outside though.

Without a doubt, the Astra is a performer. In it's class, few can outperform it. I believe its only second to the Citation X in speed. One big drawback it the size of its cabin. More specifically, the cross section is very narrow. Bring the seats in towards the isle and its very difficult to walk through. I only say this because I have had the fortunate opportunity to ride on one for a 3.5 hr plus trip.

In addition, instead of hot wings, it has boots like a turbo-prop, or a slow Citation (or even an ancient Jet Commander). I've never heard of an Astra having icing issues but boots do warrent additional inspections and care. Why wouldn't IAI or Gulfstream make it a hot wing? The usuall answer is because if you used bleed air, the airplane would be significantly "underpowered".
 
You guys forgot one other important thing:

It's ugly

All kidding aside, I have friend who fly one and they love it and wish it was a better looking plane.
 
Fokkerflyer said:
You guys forgot one other important thing:

It's ugly

All kidding aside, I have friend who fly one and they love it and wish it was a better looking plane.

Gulfstream sorta fixed that with the G150. When they widened the cabin, it's now 5'9"W X 5'9"H, they put a G-III nose on it.

Here's a few specs for you (G100 in parens):

Normal cruise - M 0.80 (M 0.80)

Long Range Cruise - M 0.75 (M 0.75)

Mmo - M 0.85 (M 0.875)

Range at normal cruise - 2400 nm. (2550 nm)

Range at LRC - 2700 nm. (2700 nm)

T/O at MGTOW - 5830 ft. (5395 ft.)

Ldg Dist. MLW - 3450 ft. (2820 ft.)

Initial alt. - FL410 (FL410)

Max alt. - FL 450 (FL450)

Max T/O wt. - 26000 lbs (24,650 lbs.)

Engines - Honeywell TFE 731-40AR, 4420 lbs. thrust (-40R, 4250 lbs. Thrust)

DOC - $1112 hr. ($1098 hr.)

Price - $13.5 m. ($11.85 M)

GV






~
 
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