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Input on the Astra, please?

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xrated said:
...One big drawback it the size of its cabin...In addition, instead of hot wings, it has boots like a turbo-prop, or a slow Citation (or even an ancient Jet Commander). I've never heard of an Astra having icing issues but boots do warrent additional inspections and care. Why wouldn't IAI or Gulfstream make it a hot wing? The usuall answer is because if you used bleed air, the airplane would be significantly "underpowered".
There's the old joke that says that the only problem with the Astra is that it has 6 hours worth of fuel and 4 hours worth of cabin. :D

As far as Hawaii goes, it can be done in the Classic and SP, but you've really got to watch the winds. It's much easier in an SPX or G100. The biggest problem that guys have in getting the range out of the airplane is that they don't bother to read the book. If you want book performance you have to fly it by the book.

As far as the "boots vs. heated leading edges" go, you need to remember that heated leading edges are considered anti-icing devices and pneumatic leading edge boots are considered deicing devices. There is a big difference between the two concepts.

The problem with heated leading edge anti-ice systems is that they need heat and lots of it. The heat typically comes from an engine bleed air source. Anytime you take that much heat from an engine you also take away a significant amount of power.

For anti-ice systems to be effective you must turn them on prior to entering icing conditions, otherwise they will just melt the ice and the water will flow back to places that are protected and refreeze - not a good thing. Also, chunks of ice can come off and go through the engines (B727, DC9, MD-80, Lear, Citation, etc. Anything with rear mounted engines.)

On the Lears that I've flown, turning on the wing heat had a significant effect on the climb capability of the aircraft, something in the range of 50% if I remember correctly. The Astras and G200 that I fly have the "old fashioned" boots on the leading edges. When I first trained in the aircraft, I was very sceptical - boots on a modern jet airplane, you've got to be kidding? In the real world, they're actually pretty nice. You only use them when you need them, and they don't extract a performance penality when you do. I've got nearly 4,000 hours in Astras and G200s and they work extremely well, I think. I say that because I can count on one hand the actual number of times that I've ever had to use them in self defense, all of the other times were for amusement purposes only.

'Sled
 
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Lead Sled said:
The biggest problem that guys have in getting the range out of the airplane is that they don't bother to read the book. If you want book performance you have to fly it by the book.
Paradigm Shift alert!:D
 
Astra is a great airplane from the SW. It will go anywhere provided that you have a long runway in the summer ... (hot down there).

Be careful with the POS slat/flap system. SLOW down before deploying them. The book says 250 knts, we always used 220-200 for the slats. Make sure that a QUALIFED mechanic maintains the system as well. One low mech lubing the accuators and you will be stuck the next time you land in freezing WX.

I loved flying the airplane ... just hated the noise in the cockpit.
 
G100driver said:
...It will go anywhere provided that you have a long runway in the summer... (hot down there).

Be careful with the POS slat/flap system. SLOW down before deploying them. The book says 250 knts, we always used 220-200 for the slats. Make sure that a QUALIFED mechanic maintains the system as well. One low mech lubing the accuators and you will be stuck the next time you land in freezing WX.

I loved flying the airplane ... just hated the noise in the cockpit.
If he's looking at an SPX they won't have many issues with runway length at most of the airports you'll typically see bizjets at, if they're looking at a -3 powered airplane runway length becomes more of an issue.

I take issue with your description of the slat/flap system. Yes, I've had more than my share of issues with it over the years (Over 3,500 hours experience personally and nearly 20,000 hours Astra experience in the flight department.), but that's pretty much "old news". Slow it down prior to extending the slats/flaps if you think it helps, but it actually doesn't make any difference at all. What does make all the difference in the world is proper (by the book) maintenance. One of the big issues is improper lubrication. We initially had issues with our airplane when we first got it, but as is almost always the case, the airplane hadn't had good maintenance ("If this much grease is good, that much more grease HAS to be better.") Since then we've gone over two years without any issues. That doesn't surprise me - at the place where I used to work we went nearly 10,000 flight hours (5 years) without a single incident. If you're having issues, I'd talk to your mechanics.

The noise is an issue, but easily handled with a headset. The standard 'Baker Box" audio panel has an intercom that works just fine.

'Sled
 
I flew serial #21 (A "classic" with -C engines and baggage tanks) for 3 years. We took it everywhere; Hawaii, Europe etc. and I have to agree with Lead sled, they do offer a lot of bang for the buck. My only gripe was the baggage, which was a bit small, especially with the tanks installed. Like any used aircraft there are good ones and bad ones, ours was unfortunately, a bad one, and it seems like we had a problem with just about every system. I later found out it had been previously used as an air ambulance and had been "ridden hard and put away wet" in my opinion. A well looked after one should serve you well, but as others have mentioned, watch out for that slat/flap system, the later model SPX's had an improved system but are still known to break.
 
Hi Sheep!

You just reminded me of my one and only flight in your old bird. It's amazing how many things can go wrong in an 8 minute flight from LAX-BUR!:eek: :)
 
HMR, I didn't know you flew old "Lame Duck".
I just remembered that she grounded us 3 times out of 3 when crossing the Atlantic; once in Gander, once in Luton and once in St. Johns!
 
When the Astras first came out, the big problem was hydraulic leaks. On coast to coast legs you used to have to make a stop somewhere in "fly over country" to top off the leaky hydraulic systems...

"Please check the fuel and top off the hydraulic systems." :p

'Sled
 
We fly S/N 52 which is an SP model. Trip today was FOK (Westhampton) to LAS (Las Vegas). With 55-60 kt. avg. winds we did the trip in 5:55 and had 1500 pounds reserve. Avg burn was 1325 pounds per hour. We flew it at .71 and step climbed to 430 using the optimum range chart. 3 adults and 150 pounds of bags. Could have flown longer, but LAS starts you down 200 miles out.
 
capnflyright said:
We fly S/N 52 which is an SP model. Trip today was FOK (Westhampton) to LAS (Las Vegas). With 55-60 kt. avg. winds we did the trip in 5:55 and had 1500 pounds reserve. Avg burn was 1325 pounds per hour. We flew it at .71 and step climbed to 430 using the optimum range chart. 3 adults and 150 pounds of bags. Could have flown longer, but LAS starts you down 200 miles out.
Do you have the fuselage tanks installed? We don't and just for grins, I ran the profile for our plane (a Classic) and we would have done the trip in 5:21 using .76 across the board using this mornings winds and temperatures aloft. It showed us getting into LAS with right around 1,500 pounds. If you fly the thing at much below .76 you start "pushing" at lot of air because of your AOA. .30 on the indexer will pretty much put you on the money.

'Sled
 

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