Innovative ways to save money...

[NCherches]

I am running out of ideas to save money and im sure this thread will lead to a bunch of funny/useless posts... but does anyone have any creative ways to save money in a corporate flight department?

 

[BoilerUP]

You already operate single pilot...

Other than vigorously shopping your insurance, using contract fuel, negotiating EVERYTHING as tightly as you can there's not really anything else you can do to provide significant operational savings short of skimping on maintenance. Or not flying.

One "free" thing we do is steep descents whenever ATC will allow; as SOP we ask for pilot discretion descents and use 4.5° (roughly 3000fpm) and find that saves us about 100lb in our CJ2+ over flight planned burns. 15gal ain't much, but over the course of 200+ segments annually it can add up to a pretty good savings.

We also regularly ask for wrong-way FL450 (vs. 430) going westbound on flights over 500nm and find that provides a significant cumulative fuel savings, especially combined with steep, near-idle thrust descents.

 

[brokeflyer]

make management take a pay cut....they ALREADY make too much.

 

[NCherches]

... 3000 ft/min in a CJ2 doesn't make your pax a little nervous? Seems like the pitch angle is pretty steep in citations over 2500 ft/min. Guess it would depend on how comfortable of flyers they are.

 

[BoilerUP]

No, 3000fpm isn't uncomfortable for our passengers.

We repeatedly asked them after we got the plane as we tried 4.0° then 4.5° VNAV descents and they always said it wasn't an issue.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Ok, I'm just starting this, but I have been reserving my hotel in advance and then the very last minute going to Priceline and putting ridiculously low rates in to see whether or not they accept. Of course, the hotel is the cheapest part of the trip usually, but you might save a few bucks that way.

 

[Headwind]

The largest single savings I have had was joining CAA. Another thing is to spend time on multi leg trips to plan where & how much fuel at each stop.
Also use an avionics shop that gets it right the first time. Going back gets expensive.

 

[bbwest]

Biggest way to save money is flying efficiently and tankering smartly. Many dont do a good job of this. Amazing how many dont understand that simply flying the correct climb profile can be huge. How many do you see climb at 250kts all the way to cruise alt? People confuse angle vs rate. Rate is what gets you to alt faster and downrange farther.
Example - if you fly a plane that cruises at .82, climbing to cruise alt at 250kts is criminal! Accellerating to 280/290/300 passing 10K(type dependant) and climbing at that speed until intercepting cruise mach then climbing at that speed the rest of the way.........

There is so much more. Many of us dont understand the math behind it. Try this in your flight department. Ask your pilots what the difference in flight time will be between flying from Dallas to Teterboro at .78 vs .82 or best cruise mach vs fastest cruise in your machine. Then run a flight plan at the different speeds

The guys trying to save 20 bucks on a hotel room are pissing in the wind.

The absolute biggest opportunity to save is fuel and most do a poor job at it

 

[TMMT]

Agreed, your true day to day savings will come in fuel and fuel management.

Its great to save 10 or 20 bucks on a hotac or eat at Burger King instead of the Ivy but at the end of the day saving $500 to a grand on fuel is where its at.

 

[guido411]

The original poster's "running out of ways" to save money comment is worrisome. Saving money is great and we all try to do our part to control costs. But if your boss is constantly breathing down your neck to cut his costs even though you've done what you believe to be a thrifty job. . .well, blood from a turnip comes to mind.

 

[PlaneJohn]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport. Take all the alcohol of the plane. With a former employer we used to carry a cooler full of beer and white wine, more times then not it was never used, and the crew had the unpleasant responsibility of disposing of it. In all seriousness if you have done your part to be efficient for your department, and there is nothing left to cut, then it is probably time to dust off the resume. Do you work for a car dealer? I knew a guy who worked for a car dealer and he made the copilot work on the sales floor when he wasn't flying. Those guys are the cheapest astards to work for!

 

[SabreFlyR]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport. Take all the alcohol of the plane. With a former employer we used to carry a cooler full of beer and white wine, more times then not it was never used, and the crew had the unpleasant responsibility of disposing of it. In all seriousness if you have done your part to be efficient for your department, and there is nothing left to cut, then it is probably time to dust off the resume. Do you work for a car dealer? I knew a guy who worked for a car dealer and he made the copilot work on the sales floor when he wasn't flying. Those guys are the cheapest astards to work for!

Pretty broad brush your painting with there. They are not all bad, I have worked for a dealer for 6 years and I can tell you we do nothing that is not related to our jobs as pilots. Our airplane is kept in impeccable condition with an open check book to keep it that way. He and his wife both give us personal checks for our birthdays and at Christmas plus our normal company bonus, wife's/girlfriends are invited on trips regularly and we have a standing policy that if we have a life threatening emergency at home while on a trip we are to take the jet and go home and they will airline. Yep pretty cheap turd to work for.

 

[guido411]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport.

My point is restated, if the boss needs to save $200 /day on catering there is an underlying issue that can't be fixed by a pilot. Blood from a turnip.

Where does it stop? Sharing hotel rooms to save $150? Renting a moped instead of a car while on layovers? Paying for your own meals? Or maybe it gets worse and the boss can't pay for adequate mx? Tread carefully.. .

 

[Gulfstream 200]

My point is restated, if the boss needs to save $200 /day on catering there is an underlying issue that can't be fixed by a pilot. Blood from a turnip.

Where does it stop? Sharing hotel rooms to save $150? Renting a moped instead of a car while on layovers? Paying for your own meals? Or maybe it gets worse and the boss can't pay for adequate mx? Tread carefully.. .

Rich people are funny....we have a six figure flight attendant, yet I know my boss would pitch a fit about $200 boxed lunches!

They dont bat an eye at a 50mil plane or 10k bottles of wine as that is for THEM. They want you to save money everywhere else.

I have always just found it part of the game. No worries. Id actually be more worried if they didnt seem to care.

Saving money?? Fuel and Handlers.

Fight for fuel prices like mad and do it constantly. Make deals to buy xx gallons per year at a fixed price.

Find a good independent dispatcher and use them directly. Use Arinc for all your Europe trips. It takes 4 minutes to run and file a flight plan and 2 minutes to call the FBO. We dont go as far as getting permits ourselves when going further, but we do many trips that Universal charges 30k for and we do them for 4k.....with better service.

Hotels, meals, cars etc is picking up pennies while tripping over dollars....think fuel and handlers. Nothing pisses pilots off more than nit picking hotels and dinners. From my experience thats a common fault of "pilot managers" I'd rather they be happy and work to save 300k in fuel and fees each year rather than analyze a Marriott vs a Hampton Inn....dont laugh, I have seen it!

Good luck.

 

[PlaneJohn]

Pretty broad brush your painting with there. They are not all bad, I have worked for a dealer for 6 years and I can tell you we do nothing that is not related to our jobs as pilots. Our airplane is kept in impeccable condition with an open check book to keep it that way. He and his wife both give us personal checks for our birthdays and at Christmas plus our normal company bonus, wife's/girlfriends are invited on trips regularly and we have a standing policy that if we have a life threatening emergency at home while on a trip we are to take the jet and go home and they will airline. Yep pretty cheap turd to work for.

Painting with a broad stroke yields a better coverage! At least thats what the can says. You are right sir. My experience is limited with Car dealers, but the one I do remember wasn't pleasent. You'd think I was a Democrat or something vilifying one industry over another. Sounds like you have a good gig. Please except my apology.

 

[guido411]

Rich people are funny....we have a six figure flight attendant, yet I know my boss would pitch a fit about $200 boxed lunches!

They dont bat an eye at a 50mil plane or 10k bottles of wine as that is for THEM. They want you to save money everywhere else.

I have always just found it part of the game. No worries. Id actually be more worried if they didnt seem to care.

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

 

[NCherches]

...Sad thing is the boss never even asked me to cut spending, but I enjoy saving him the most possible without giving up quality of life and/or safety. I guess I still take pride in my position. Like I said I figured I would get a lot of useless posts but figured some guys would have some cool ideas I may have overlooked as well... Contract fuel is kind of a no-brainer however I know so many pilots who simply are too lazy to set up accounts. My boss(s) are smart with money and that is why I am comfortable that my job will be around for years to come...

Being a corporate pilot is much more than flying a business jet...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

Dont worry about offending me, its pretty hard to do (lol) - just dont insult my beloved Grumman. Its my identity.

Anyhow - I have honestly found the guys who watch every penny to be the most stable - from King Airs, to Learjet, to Globals/Gulfstreams. The ones that always seemed to fail were the ones that seemed bottomless, always talking about new planes, etc etc.

Staying at the bosses house? yeah...not happening. lol. We are at a whole new level there.

All I am saying is that most very wealthy people watch every penny, especially when its for things that aren't theirs directly (like your expenses) Sometimes I think its to let you know they watch everything, other times I think its because they are cheap as hell, and maybe thats how they buy airplanes...whatever, pay me well, treat me well, and I'm happy. I dont expect to live different on the road than I do at home. Decent, clean hotels, normal meals, etc. I dont need a Four Seasons, but I dont stay at Holiday Inn Express as I want a decent sleep off a busy road. I dont expect a Bentley to pick me up but I dont take compact rental cars, as I dont drive an unsafe POS at home. I dont turn in bar tabs. Common sense stuff.

As far as steep descents etc to save fuel - sounds more to me like busy pilot work. Flying optimum altitudes long range to save? slowing from .85 to .82 to save xxx...ok, so long as boss knows you are putting a number on his time....but once actually in the airplane and started, I personally do not worry about the money...I carry lots of fuel and divert around any wx, etc etc to give the best rides possible.

I still say - fuel, fuel, fuel. Thats the best place to save. You would be surprised how many people pay $1+ more per gallon than they need to.

I agree with Ncherches - flying is a small part of it. These people look at you as managing their asset - and nobody (certainly not a Mgmt company) can do it better than pilots who like their job.

 

[bizjet800]

I was new to this Hawker way back when, it was my first management attempt. The boss on the interview told me to save money whenever possible--on cheap fuel, cheap FBOs etc. I said no problem, I always get the best deals when possible. I even saved a ton of money on training costs, over $18k for me and my copilot.

My first trip with a contract pilot (copilot was still in training) I spent two days shopping for fuel and planning all the airports. I saved the boss about $3k in fuel. After the trip the secretary called about a trip expense. In question was a charge from Applbees for $23.00! She said that "seemed like a lot for one person." Needless to say that position didn't last. He's had 6 or 7 crews cycle through in a couple of years.

 

[BushwickBill]

Cynically I think a lot of the effort you guys are making isn't likely even noticed. I see a lot of guys busting butt for various reasons and they never even run it by the operator/ owner. Just be sure it isn't your concerns about money that is driving the cost cutting.

Also I don't consider a sacrifice worth it if you have nothing to show for it.

 

[NCherches]

Cynically I think a lot of the effort you guys are making isn't likely even noticed....

Guess to me its more about Integrity... or doing the right thing even if no one is watching. Karma is also at work in aviation I believe.

 

[BushwickBill]

Hey please don't take offense or consider that I don't try and help the owner of the aircraft I fly.

I have just seen some guys do so much for the owner and then get thrown out with the rest of the trash. Some guys get really wrecked about it.

 

[spxdriver]

I dont expect a Bentley to pick me up but I dont take compact rental cars, as I dont drive an unsafe POS at home.

Excuse me, Mr. Smart Car??

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Excuse me, Mr. Smart Car??

I traded that in for a Hyundai, as its really the same as a BMW......

 

[patq1]

Biggest way to save money is flying efficiently and tankering smartly. Many dont do a good job of this. Amazing how many dont understand that simply flying the correct climb profile can be huge. How many do you see climb at 250kts all the way to cruise alt? People confuse angle vs rate. Rate is what gets you to alt faster and downrange farther.
Example - if you fly a plane that cruises at .82, climbing to cruise alt at 250kts is criminal! Accellerating to 280/290/300 passing 10K(type dependant) and climbing at that speed until intercepting cruise mach then climbing at that speed the rest of the way.........

There is so much more. Many of us dont understand the math behind it. Try this in your flight department. Ask your pilots what the difference in flight time will be between flying from Dallas to Teterboro at .78 vs .82 or best cruise mach vs fastest cruise in your machine. Then run a flight plan at the different speeds

The guys trying to save 20 bucks on a hotel room are pissing in the wind.

The absolute biggest opportunity to save is fuel and most do a poor job at it

I personally would follow the manufacturers recommendation as far as climbing and flying efficiently. On the 900B, Dassault recommends a 260 knot/.72 mach climb for maximum efficiency. And yes I have compared the 260/.72 to the 300/.80 profile and not surprisingly Dassault is correct. In the Hawker 800, the recommended climb profile for maximum efficiency was 250 knots/.63 mach( or somewhere close to this, it's been a while). So your advice to always use a high speed climb will not save fuel. The manufacturers put a lot of effort into the manuals, so we might as well use their knowledge. I doubt any of us know the airplanes better than they do.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I traded that in for a Hyundai, as its really the same as a BMW......

I've got a Hyundai. The transmission is junk, the electrical is crazy, the scheduled maintenance is between $1500 and $2000 every 30,000 miles and the gas mileage is less than my old Yukon.

 

[spxdriver]

I've got a Hyundai. The transmission is junk, the electrical is crazy, the scheduled maintenance is between $1500 and $2000 every 30,000 miles and the gas mileage is less than my old Yukon.

I told G200 exactly that before he traded in his car for his current Hyundai! There was no talking him down from the ledge though. However, I will give him some credit; He does take exceptional care of his car. Always parks it far away so nobody dings the doors regardless of the outside temperature, and never allows his kids to eat in the car.

 

[jet2work]

Go easy on the brakes and tires. This can be one of your largest maintenance expenses for many aircraft. Roll it to the end and keep the brakes and tires cool. A few dozen extra landings amortized over the cost of a set of tires and brakes is real dollars. Unfortunately there is nothing sexy about doing it this way, and pretty hard to show the boss the cost savings versus getting a hotel room on Priceline. Many times it's about perception than actual savings.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont use the brakes.....in my Hyundai or my Grumman. Forget that concept of getting on the brakes to assure they are there and the fact that early steady braking is best for brake life...I dont need any of that. Its my runway I will use it all. I fly a big airplane.

I'm all about saving....you should see the fuel savings program I created for our department.

I got a gold star from my chief pilot.

 

[Diesel]

4.5 degree? Man why don't you just shut down the engines and glide down?

The reality is you can save costs, but I'm not going to do it at the cost of my quality of life.

If the owner doesn't realize your saving money then whats the point? Make sure he understands you are saving him money. At the end of each quarter do a breakdown on where you are saving and how much you are saving.

Because at the end if he doesn't know it you aren't going to get credit for it, and you might lose your job to someone else that says they are going to save him more money. ie a managment company.

The other thing is that it isn't your money. I've seen this thousands of times with people that scrimp to save a buck at the issue of QOL and then screw it up for those that follow. I've seen it the other way of course but generally being pilots we do it the cheapest way possible at the maximum benefit for us. With that though my QOL is job one. period.

If the quality of life goes to hell then whats the point of saving money.