Innovative ways to save money...

[guido411]

Rich people are funny....we have a six figure flight attendant, yet I know my boss would pitch a fit about $200 boxed lunches!

They dont bat an eye at a 50mil plane or 10k bottles of wine as that is for THEM. They want you to save money everywhere else.

I have always just found it part of the game. No worries. Id actually be more worried if they didnt seem to care.

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

 

[NCherches]

...Sad thing is the boss never even asked me to cut spending, but I enjoy saving him the most possible without giving up quality of life and/or safety. I guess I still take pride in my position. Like I said I figured I would get a lot of useless posts but figured some guys would have some cool ideas I may have overlooked as well... Contract fuel is kind of a no-brainer however I know so many pilots who simply are too lazy to set up accounts. My boss(s) are smart with money and that is why I am comfortable that my job will be around for years to come...

Being a corporate pilot is much more than flying a business jet...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

Dont worry about offending me, its pretty hard to do (lol) - just dont insult my beloved Grumman. Its my identity.

Anyhow - I have honestly found the guys who watch every penny to be the most stable - from King Airs, to Learjet, to Globals/Gulfstreams. The ones that always seemed to fail were the ones that seemed bottomless, always talking about new planes, etc etc.

Staying at the bosses house? yeah...not happening. lol. We are at a whole new level there.

All I am saying is that most very wealthy people watch every penny, especially when its for things that aren't theirs directly (like your expenses) Sometimes I think its to let you know they watch everything, other times I think its because they are cheap as hell, and maybe thats how they buy airplanes...whatever, pay me well, treat me well, and I'm happy. I dont expect to live different on the road than I do at home. Decent, clean hotels, normal meals, etc. I dont need a Four Seasons, but I dont stay at Holiday Inn Express as I want a decent sleep off a busy road. I dont expect a Bentley to pick me up but I dont take compact rental cars, as I dont drive an unsafe POS at home. I dont turn in bar tabs. Common sense stuff.

As far as steep descents etc to save fuel - sounds more to me like busy pilot work. Flying optimum altitudes long range to save? slowing from .85 to .82 to save xxx...ok, so long as boss knows you are putting a number on his time....but once actually in the airplane and started, I personally do not worry about the money...I carry lots of fuel and divert around any wx, etc etc to give the best rides possible.

I still say - fuel, fuel, fuel. Thats the best place to save. You would be surprised how many people pay $1+ more per gallon than they need to.

I agree with Ncherches - flying is a small part of it. These people look at you as managing their asset - and nobody (certainly not a Mgmt company) can do it better than pilots who like their job.

 

[bizjet800]

I was new to this Hawker way back when, it was my first management attempt. The boss on the interview told me to save money whenever possible--on cheap fuel, cheap FBOs etc. I said no problem, I always get the best deals when possible. I even saved a ton of money on training costs, over $18k for me and my copilot.

My first trip with a contract pilot (copilot was still in training) I spent two days shopping for fuel and planning all the airports. I saved the boss about $3k in fuel. After the trip the secretary called about a trip expense. In question was a charge from Applbees for $23.00! She said that "seemed like a lot for one person." Needless to say that position didn't last. He's had 6 or 7 crews cycle through in a couple of years.

 

[BushwickBill]

Cynically I think a lot of the effort you guys are making isn't likely even noticed. I see a lot of guys busting butt for various reasons and they never even run it by the operator/ owner. Just be sure it isn't your concerns about money that is driving the cost cutting.

Also I don't consider a sacrifice worth it if you have nothing to show for it.

 

[NCherches]

Cynically I think a lot of the effort you guys are making isn't likely even noticed....

Guess to me its more about Integrity... or doing the right thing even if no one is watching. Karma is also at work in aviation I believe.

 

[BushwickBill]

Hey please don't take offense or consider that I don't try and help the owner of the aircraft I fly.

I have just seen some guys do so much for the owner and then get thrown out with the rest of the trash. Some guys get really wrecked about it.

 

[spxdriver]

I dont expect a Bentley to pick me up but I dont take compact rental cars, as I dont drive an unsafe POS at home.

Excuse me, Mr. Smart Car??

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Excuse me, Mr. Smart Car??

I traded that in for a Hyundai, as its really the same as a BMW......

 

[patq1]

Biggest way to save money is flying efficiently and tankering smartly. Many dont do a good job of this. Amazing how many dont understand that simply flying the correct climb profile can be huge. How many do you see climb at 250kts all the way to cruise alt? People confuse angle vs rate. Rate is what gets you to alt faster and downrange farther.
Example - if you fly a plane that cruises at .82, climbing to cruise alt at 250kts is criminal! Accellerating to 280/290/300 passing 10K(type dependant) and climbing at that speed until intercepting cruise mach then climbing at that speed the rest of the way.........

There is so much more. Many of us dont understand the math behind it. Try this in your flight department. Ask your pilots what the difference in flight time will be between flying from Dallas to Teterboro at .78 vs .82 or best cruise mach vs fastest cruise in your machine. Then run a flight plan at the different speeds

The guys trying to save 20 bucks on a hotel room are pissing in the wind.

The absolute biggest opportunity to save is fuel and most do a poor job at it

I personally would follow the manufacturers recommendation as far as climbing and flying efficiently. On the 900B, Dassault recommends a 260 knot/.72 mach climb for maximum efficiency. And yes I have compared the 260/.72 to the 300/.80 profile and not surprisingly Dassault is correct. In the Hawker 800, the recommended climb profile for maximum efficiency was 250 knots/.63 mach( or somewhere close to this, it's been a while). So your advice to always use a high speed climb will not save fuel. The manufacturers put a lot of effort into the manuals, so we might as well use their knowledge. I doubt any of us know the airplanes better than they do.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I traded that in for a Hyundai, as its really the same as a BMW......

I've got a Hyundai. The transmission is junk, the electrical is crazy, the scheduled maintenance is between $1500 and $2000 every 30,000 miles and the gas mileage is less than my old Yukon.

 

[spxdriver]

I've got a Hyundai. The transmission is junk, the electrical is crazy, the scheduled maintenance is between $1500 and $2000 every 30,000 miles and the gas mileage is less than my old Yukon.

I told G200 exactly that before he traded in his car for his current Hyundai! There was no talking him down from the ledge though. However, I will give him some credit; He does take exceptional care of his car. Always parks it far away so nobody dings the doors regardless of the outside temperature, and never allows his kids to eat in the car.

 

[jet2work]

Go easy on the brakes and tires. This can be one of your largest maintenance expenses for many aircraft. Roll it to the end and keep the brakes and tires cool. A few dozen extra landings amortized over the cost of a set of tires and brakes is real dollars. Unfortunately there is nothing sexy about doing it this way, and pretty hard to show the boss the cost savings versus getting a hotel room on Priceline. Many times it's about perception than actual savings.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont use the brakes.....in my Hyundai or my Grumman. Forget that concept of getting on the brakes to assure they are there and the fact that early steady braking is best for brake life...I dont need any of that. Its my runway I will use it all. I fly a big airplane.

I'm all about saving....you should see the fuel savings program I created for our department.

I got a gold star from my chief pilot.

 

[Diesel]

4.5 degree? Man why don't you just shut down the engines and glide down?

The reality is you can save costs, but I'm not going to do it at the cost of my quality of life.

If the owner doesn't realize your saving money then whats the point? Make sure he understands you are saving him money. At the end of each quarter do a breakdown on where you are saving and how much you are saving.

Because at the end if he doesn't know it you aren't going to get credit for it, and you might lose your job to someone else that says they are going to save him more money. ie a managment company.

The other thing is that it isn't your money. I've seen this thousands of times with people that scrimp to save a buck at the issue of QOL and then screw it up for those that follow. I've seen it the other way of course but generally being pilots we do it the cheapest way possible at the maximum benefit for us. With that though my QOL is job one. period.

If the quality of life goes to hell then whats the point of saving money.