Innovative ways to save money...

[NCherches]

I am running out of ideas to save money and im sure this thread will lead to a bunch of funny/useless posts... but does anyone have any creative ways to save money in a corporate flight department?

 

[BoilerUP]

You already operate single pilot...

Other than vigorously shopping your insurance, using contract fuel, negotiating EVERYTHING as tightly as you can there's not really anything else you can do to provide significant operational savings short of skimping on maintenance. Or not flying.

One "free" thing we do is steep descents whenever ATC will allow; as SOP we ask for pilot discretion descents and use 4.5° (roughly 3000fpm) and find that saves us about 100lb in our CJ2+ over flight planned burns. 15gal ain't much, but over the course of 200+ segments annually it can add up to a pretty good savings.

We also regularly ask for wrong-way FL450 (vs. 430) going westbound on flights over 500nm and find that provides a significant cumulative fuel savings, especially combined with steep, near-idle thrust descents.

 

[brokeflyer]

make management take a pay cut....they ALREADY make too much.

 

[NCherches]

... 3000 ft/min in a CJ2 doesn't make your pax a little nervous? Seems like the pitch angle is pretty steep in citations over 2500 ft/min. Guess it would depend on how comfortable of flyers they are.

 

[BoilerUP]

No, 3000fpm isn't uncomfortable for our passengers.

We repeatedly asked them after we got the plane as we tried 4.0° then 4.5° VNAV descents and they always said it wasn't an issue.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Ok, I'm just starting this, but I have been reserving my hotel in advance and then the very last minute going to Priceline and putting ridiculously low rates in to see whether or not they accept. Of course, the hotel is the cheapest part of the trip usually, but you might save a few bucks that way.

 

[Headwind]

The largest single savings I have had was joining CAA. Another thing is to spend time on multi leg trips to plan where & how much fuel at each stop.
Also use an avionics shop that gets it right the first time. Going back gets expensive.

 

[bbwest]

Biggest way to save money is flying efficiently and tankering smartly. Many dont do a good job of this. Amazing how many dont understand that simply flying the correct climb profile can be huge. How many do you see climb at 250kts all the way to cruise alt? People confuse angle vs rate. Rate is what gets you to alt faster and downrange farther.
Example - if you fly a plane that cruises at .82, climbing to cruise alt at 250kts is criminal! Accellerating to 280/290/300 passing 10K(type dependant) and climbing at that speed until intercepting cruise mach then climbing at that speed the rest of the way.........

There is so much more. Many of us dont understand the math behind it. Try this in your flight department. Ask your pilots what the difference in flight time will be between flying from Dallas to Teterboro at .78 vs .82 or best cruise mach vs fastest cruise in your machine. Then run a flight plan at the different speeds

The guys trying to save 20 bucks on a hotel room are pissing in the wind.

The absolute biggest opportunity to save is fuel and most do a poor job at it

 

[TMMT]

Agreed, your true day to day savings will come in fuel and fuel management.

Its great to save 10 or 20 bucks on a hotac or eat at Burger King instead of the Ivy but at the end of the day saving $500 to a grand on fuel is where its at.

 

[guido411]

The original poster's "running out of ways" to save money comment is worrisome. Saving money is great and we all try to do our part to control costs. But if your boss is constantly breathing down your neck to cut his costs even though you've done what you believe to be a thrifty job. . .well, blood from a turnip comes to mind.

 

[PlaneJohn]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport. Take all the alcohol of the plane. With a former employer we used to carry a cooler full of beer and white wine, more times then not it was never used, and the crew had the unpleasant responsibility of disposing of it. In all seriousness if you have done your part to be efficient for your department, and there is nothing left to cut, then it is probably time to dust off the resume. Do you work for a car dealer? I knew a guy who worked for a car dealer and he made the copilot work on the sales floor when he wasn't flying. Those guys are the cheapest astards to work for!

 

[SabreFlyR]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport. Take all the alcohol of the plane. With a former employer we used to carry a cooler full of beer and white wine, more times then not it was never used, and the crew had the unpleasant responsibility of disposing of it. In all seriousness if you have done your part to be efficient for your department, and there is nothing left to cut, then it is probably time to dust off the resume. Do you work for a car dealer? I knew a guy who worked for a car dealer and he made the copilot work on the sales floor when he wasn't flying. Those guys are the cheapest astards to work for!

Pretty broad brush your painting with there. They are not all bad, I have worked for a dealer for 6 years and I can tell you we do nothing that is not related to our jobs as pilots. Our airplane is kept in impeccable condition with an open check book to keep it that way. He and his wife both give us personal checks for our birthdays and at Christmas plus our normal company bonus, wife's/girlfriends are invited on trips regularly and we have a standing policy that if we have a life threatening emergency at home while on a trip we are to take the jet and go home and they will airline. Yep pretty cheap turd to work for.

 

[guido411]

Have you seen the cost of catering at some of the FBO's? I've put as much as $80 for 2 box lunches on my fuel bill which consisted of a sh1ty fruit cup, and soggy sandwich. If your pax are insistent that you do your part on being frugal, then maybe they can do their part by eliminating catering and having the limo stop at subway on the way back to the airport.

My point is restated, if the boss needs to save $200 /day on catering there is an underlying issue that can't be fixed by a pilot. Blood from a turnip.

Where does it stop? Sharing hotel rooms to save $150? Renting a moped instead of a car while on layovers? Paying for your own meals? Or maybe it gets worse and the boss can't pay for adequate mx? Tread carefully.. .

 

[Gulfstream 200]

My point is restated, if the boss needs to save $200 /day on catering there is an underlying issue that can't be fixed by a pilot. Blood from a turnip.

Where does it stop? Sharing hotel rooms to save $150? Renting a moped instead of a car while on layovers? Paying for your own meals? Or maybe it gets worse and the boss can't pay for adequate mx? Tread carefully.. .

Rich people are funny....we have a six figure flight attendant, yet I know my boss would pitch a fit about $200 boxed lunches!

They dont bat an eye at a 50mil plane or 10k bottles of wine as that is for THEM. They want you to save money everywhere else.

I have always just found it part of the game. No worries. Id actually be more worried if they didnt seem to care.

Saving money?? Fuel and Handlers.

Fight for fuel prices like mad and do it constantly. Make deals to buy xx gallons per year at a fixed price.

Find a good independent dispatcher and use them directly. Use Arinc for all your Europe trips. It takes 4 minutes to run and file a flight plan and 2 minutes to call the FBO. We dont go as far as getting permits ourselves when going further, but we do many trips that Universal charges 30k for and we do them for 4k.....with better service.

Hotels, meals, cars etc is picking up pennies while tripping over dollars....think fuel and handlers. Nothing pisses pilots off more than nit picking hotels and dinners. From my experience thats a common fault of "pilot managers" I'd rather they be happy and work to save 300k in fuel and fees each year rather than analyze a Marriott vs a Hampton Inn....dont laugh, I have seen it!

Good luck.

 

[PlaneJohn]

Pretty broad brush your painting with there. They are not all bad, I have worked for a dealer for 6 years and I can tell you we do nothing that is not related to our jobs as pilots. Our airplane is kept in impeccable condition with an open check book to keep it that way. He and his wife both give us personal checks for our birthdays and at Christmas plus our normal company bonus, wife's/girlfriends are invited on trips regularly and we have a standing policy that if we have a life threatening emergency at home while on a trip we are to take the jet and go home and they will airline. Yep pretty cheap turd to work for.

Painting with a broad stroke yields a better coverage! At least thats what the can says. You are right sir. My experience is limited with Car dealers, but the one I do remember wasn't pleasent. You'd think I was a Democrat or something vilifying one industry over another. Sounds like you have a good gig. Please except my apology.

 

[guido411]

Rich people are funny....we have a six figure flight attendant, yet I know my boss would pitch a fit about $200 boxed lunches!

They dont bat an eye at a 50mil plane or 10k bottles of wine as that is for THEM. They want you to save money everywhere else.

I have always just found it part of the game. No worries. Id actually be more worried if they didnt seem to care.

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

 

[NCherches]

...Sad thing is the boss never even asked me to cut spending, but I enjoy saving him the most possible without giving up quality of life and/or safety. I guess I still take pride in my position. Like I said I figured I would get a lot of useless posts but figured some guys would have some cool ideas I may have overlooked as well... Contract fuel is kind of a no-brainer however I know so many pilots who simply are too lazy to set up accounts. My boss(s) are smart with money and that is why I am comfortable that my job will be around for years to come...

Being a corporate pilot is much more than flying a business jet...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No offense G200, I've usually agreed with your posts but I have to point out that your "game" may be different than the poster's. You talk of $50M planes and a six-figure FA which is a game being played on a very different ball field than a poster that lists CE500 and LRJETs. You may be talking about two ends of the private jet spectrum. The guy in the King Air or CJ is way more likely to feel like he needs to skimp on things to keep an airplane and your guys go buy a G350 when the sqeeze is on.

Worked for a guy back in the day that had a twin turbo-prop, pinched pennies and wanted me to stay at his condo to save money (I refused). That plane turned into a piston twin and complained that we put too much gas on because it wasn't as cheap as at home. Then that airplane went away.

As I said, tread carefully.

Dont worry about offending me, its pretty hard to do (lol) - just dont insult my beloved Grumman. Its my identity.

Anyhow - I have honestly found the guys who watch every penny to be the most stable - from King Airs, to Learjet, to Globals/Gulfstreams. The ones that always seemed to fail were the ones that seemed bottomless, always talking about new planes, etc etc.

Staying at the bosses house? yeah...not happening. lol. We are at a whole new level there.

All I am saying is that most very wealthy people watch every penny, especially when its for things that aren't theirs directly (like your expenses) Sometimes I think its to let you know they watch everything, other times I think its because they are cheap as hell, and maybe thats how they buy airplanes...whatever, pay me well, treat me well, and I'm happy. I dont expect to live different on the road than I do at home. Decent, clean hotels, normal meals, etc. I dont need a Four Seasons, but I dont stay at Holiday Inn Express as I want a decent sleep off a busy road. I dont expect a Bentley to pick me up but I dont take compact rental cars, as I dont drive an unsafe POS at home. I dont turn in bar tabs. Common sense stuff.

As far as steep descents etc to save fuel - sounds more to me like busy pilot work. Flying optimum altitudes long range to save? slowing from .85 to .82 to save xxx...ok, so long as boss knows you are putting a number on his time....but once actually in the airplane and started, I personally do not worry about the money...I carry lots of fuel and divert around any wx, etc etc to give the best rides possible.

I still say - fuel, fuel, fuel. Thats the best place to save. You would be surprised how many people pay $1+ more per gallon than they need to.

I agree with Ncherches - flying is a small part of it. These people look at you as managing their asset - and nobody (certainly not a Mgmt company) can do it better than pilots who like their job.

 

[bizjet800]

I was new to this Hawker way back when, it was my first management attempt. The boss on the interview told me to save money whenever possible--on cheap fuel, cheap FBOs etc. I said no problem, I always get the best deals when possible. I even saved a ton of money on training costs, over $18k for me and my copilot.

My first trip with a contract pilot (copilot was still in training) I spent two days shopping for fuel and planning all the airports. I saved the boss about $3k in fuel. After the trip the secretary called about a trip expense. In question was a charge from Applbees for $23.00! She said that "seemed like a lot for one person." Needless to say that position didn't last. He's had 6 or 7 crews cycle through in a couple of years.

 

[BushwickBill]

Cynically I think a lot of the effort you guys are making isn't likely even noticed. I see a lot of guys busting butt for various reasons and they never even run it by the operator/ owner. Just be sure it isn't your concerns about money that is driving the cost cutting.

Also I don't consider a sacrifice worth it if you have nothing to show for it.