Industry 70 seat rates

[Smacktard]

Has anybody figured out what the net cost to the company would be when comparing the proposed 70-seat cut and the 50-seat and ATR raise? Does the 70-seat decrease equal the amount in raises for the other pilots?

Just curious.

It'll be a net savings after the ATR's are retired and 50's start getting swapped out for 70's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

We all know that the rjdc's membership is filled with the "undesirables" of aviation....No college degree, DUI's, violations. That's why you sought the monetary claims.
737

Ok, if we all know this, name names. As far as I know the RJDC does not have "members." There are Supporters, Leadership, Officers and Plaintiff's.

I know many of these pilots and I do not know a one who does not have a degree, has been charged with a felony, or has a violation on their certificate. We are members of a profession with a duty to elevate that profession. If you are going to reply to thoughtful discourse with libel then you should put up, or shut up.

These pilots are the Dave Behncke's of our generation. And you Sir are simply offensive - shoo - spend time with DeAngelo.

 

[Dodge]

I'm really amazed you guys don't try to stop this by taking ALPA on. I'm pretty much convinced the Delta pilots would have tried to pull a "Compass" on us if we did not form the RJDC.

I have a lot of faith in the RJDC being able to stop mainline MEC's and management from colluding to destroy our jobs. If the RJDC loses and ALPA continues on its current course, this profession is going to continue down hill, even if the industry rebounds.

ALPA has nothing to do with it at NWA/XJ. The NWA MEC is trying to put the jobs with their pilots. The XJ MEC would like the same. Lowest bidder wins. It doesn't matter if one comes from the C-5 background or a C-152 background. Bean counters couldn't care less if they both know how to read an arrival chart and pass a check ride.

What is the RJDC gonna do about the Skywest merger? When Skywest decides to make ASA go away, what then? Different verse, same song of the Compass mess.

Rambling on here, I know, but the RJDC would do nothing for Mesaba pilots. Heck, there are only 2 RJ's on the property.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Excellent post 79%, finally somebody sees the light. Our costs have got to be in line with the rest of the industry if we want to stay in business. For our CNC to demand a minimum rate increase of 9% for the CR7 is wishfull thinking at best when you take into acount that we are already one of the highest paid CR7 drivers w/o profit sharing.
If our CNC can manage to keep CR7=CR9 rates as they are and bring ATR and CR2 rates to industry standard with defined language profit sharing, I will be a happy camper.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA has nothing to do with it at NWA/XJ.

Lowest bidder wins.

Enough said. (My opinion is that ALPA should not be allowing pilots to bid against each other.)

I did not intend to say the RJDC could ride to your rescue. They have a full plate already.

If you believe ALPA is not complicit in the transfer of flying from Mesaba to Northwest then you are correct from your perspective. You expect nothing from your union and you have recieved all that you expected.

The ALPA cool aid is very deep over there and even I will admit Tom Wychor makes an impression. I think he is wrong, but if you are Mesaba and you are happy - well OK - I'll respect your opinion.

 

[Dodge]

Take care.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I decided to do some research on 70 seat rates in the industry, to compare them to ASA's current rates, and what mngmt has proposed. Pretty interesting:

Captain Rates:

---Eagle--Comair--Mesa- PSA- CHQ- SKYW--Ave: ASA

5yr- 70--- 64 --- 62--- 66--- 68----63--- 65.5----68
6yr- 72--- 66--- 64--- 68--- 70 ---65--- 67.5----70
7yr- 74--- 68--- 66--- 69--- 72----67--- 69.3----72
8yr- 76--- 70 --- 68--- 71---74 ---69--- 71.3-----75
9yr- 78--- 72--- 70--- 73--- 76--- 71--- 73.3----78
10yr- 80---74--- 72 --- 75--- 79--- 74---77.7-----81
Max- 97--- 94--- 90 --- 91--- 95--- 93---93.5----103
18 yrs

First Officers:

---Eagle--Comair--Mesa--Psa---CHQ---SKYW---Ave----ASA--ASA cut

1yr--24---20-------21-----21----22----19----21.6-----19---?
2yr--32---32-------28-----30----30----35----30.4-----37---32.2
3yr--34---34-------31-----32----34----36----33-------39---34.3
4yr--36---35-------33-----34----35----37----34.6-----40---34.8
5yr--37---36-------34-----35----35----38----35.4-----41---35.7
max-39---38-------36-----36----35-----40---35.7-----45

If you look at the FO rates, ASA is indeed considerably higher than the rest, aside from 1st year. Now, my feeling on this is maybe everyone else is paid too little, however, they are what they are. ASA's second year FO pay is almost more than the industry ave. for the max pay! Trying to be rational, and looking from the other side, I can see where management is coming up with their proposed rates. They still put ASA above industry average. With the unions propsed 9% raises above these rates, we would be so far above industry rates our flying would no longer be viable, and we would probably lose all of our 700's to Skywest. This is how business works. They seek to keep their costs in line with their competitors. No flame, now. I am not a Deangelo. Just wanted to lay it out and look at it in the big picture to decide if I support 9% increase (which I would LOVE!) over our already higher rates, and deciding the cosequences of that. Can I strike to try to get 23% more pay than the averages of my competitors? I just don't think they will pay us that, and if they did agree to, how could we expect any new flying, or to keep what we have when Skywest could just take it, or Delta could give it to Mesa and CHQ whose costs are much lower!

Good post 79%N1. I don't want the 70 seater to take a paycut, but the fact is that the industry standard doesn't support our current 70 seat pay. You didn't include the new Northwest mainline rate for 78 seaters that is less than our current 70 seat rate. I would love $120 per hour for the 70 seater, but it is not reasonable in this environment.

ALPA has failed miserably in the collective bargaining arena. We shouldn't be competing with each other, but we are. Industry leading rates and work rules will result in the slow death of ASA. Look at ALG, PDT, CCAir, ACA, CMR, Air Wisc., and Mesaba. Being the highest paid in the new "portfolio concept", is a losing battle.

Fix ALPA, wait for better times, then go for the improvements. Otherwise your just pi$$ing in the wind - it may feel good, but your just pi$$ing on yourself...

 

[737 Pylt]

Ok, if we all know this, name names. As far as I know the RJDC does not have "members." There are Supporters, Leadership, Officers and Plaintiff's.

You post the list of plantiffs and I'll let you know which ones are the ones, this way I can't be sued for slander....We all know how you losers like to sue!

I know many of these pilots and I do not know a one who does not have a degree, has been charged with a felony, or has a violation on their certificate. We are members of a profession with a duty to elevate that profession. If you are going to reply to thoughtful discourse with libel then you should put up, or shut up.

The group you so proudly claim is a bunch of losers who "couldn't get hired by a major." You know it and are trying to save face with your little lawsuit. Your suit is based on extortion from my union and 60,000 other dues paying members. Your bunch is loaded with the "undesirables" in the industry!

These pilots are the Dave Behncke's of our generation. And you Sir are simply offensive - shoo - spend time with DeAngelo.

I'm looking forward to the day you eat your lawsuit, and ALPA files a counter suit in the sum of money used to fight this useless battle! I'm sick of all your lies and deceptions! You should be spending more time worrying about what Skywest Inc. is going to do to you guys instead of worrying about the DL MEC and negotiations with OUR management!
Now go and kiss your pal ford's butt! You seem to be good at it!
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

What is the RJDC gonna do about the Skywest merger? When Skywest decides to make ASA go away, what then? Different verse, same song of the Compass mess.

That is exactly the reason that having effective scope language in our next contract is critical.

I don't think (without researching the topic & I'm just a supporter) the RJDC could do anything about a "Skywest Merger." Skywest can have their way with us because they are management and do not owe us the duty of fair representation. We pay ALPA and ALPA has an obligation not to harm us. There is a difference in the duty owed.

 

[737 Pylt]

Fix ALPA, wait for better times,

Naah, it just easier to sue instead!

Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining!

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire!

737