Independence Air to cease all operations in Jan.

[Diesel]

i allways thought to myself tha furloughing 700 pilots was the plan from the begining. They knew they couldn't get the i air plan off the ground with that many pilots and nobody would go for them laying off that many pilots and still show up for work. So they make a whack at it for a few months and then decide to throw in the towel for 700 pilots brining the company down to the size they wanted.

Only problem is it doesn't look like they stopped downsizing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It makes me chuckle reading the post of how proud the pilots/FAs/employees were to kick UAL to the curb. Get a reality check! A paycheck is a paycheck. The bank doesn't care were your mortgage payment comes from...just get it in and on time!

The employees had no choice. They were along for the ride....any ride that the clown management put them on. So any suggestion otherwise is misguided...

What was so bad about flying for UAX? Sure it was a jacked up operation, but that didn't seem to stop any of us from applying to ACA. Heck some of us were ready to pay 10K just to fly UAL paint around. Was it the expectation of leaving ACA in a few years for a career carrier? Anything Tom and Kerry did/does will be a failure. Except maybe fee for departure. So if Tom/Kerry [stupidly] tells UAL to pound sand how smart is it to say "Hel! yeah, we employees are-are own man!" This is like an amature boxer stepping into the ring with Ali. Sure he was is own man...for a minute, but then he got the beating of his life.

In a few days 15+ year employees making over 100K will be out of a job. And for what?? Corporate ignorance, ego and greed.

Tom and Kerry are now simply available for employment. And they will show up somewhere, maybe at YOUR next carrier....

FLYI was nothing but a facade. Trying to make it anything more is rediculous..

Look, man, I have all the repsect for FLYI crews and employees but it is what it is.... Give it a few months and the reality will kick in like a migraine headache

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Didn't ACA start this venture with around $300,000,000 cash in the bank?

Seems to me that they should have relieved themselves of the expensive-to-operate CRJ's ASAP and started taking more Airbi ASAP, even if if meant entering bankruptcy soon after starting operations. With a CASM of over 15 cents for the CRJ, how can a business plan call for a low fare operation?

Yes, it would have been painful, but totally shutting down has got to be more painful.

I am truly sorry for all those affected. I have been furloughed twice in this industry and don't wish it on anyone.

Good luck and God Bless.

GP

 

[8AF]

Surprised the media hasn't picked this up.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Surprised the media hasn't picked this up.

It was mentioned on Squawk Box this morning on CNBC.

GP

 

[h25b]

While I have nothing but sympathy for those about to be on unemployment, but like Rez, this noble cause striking it out alone BS is remarkable... People act like the management from United was coming in to their homes and kicking their cats.

FlyI is yet another failed attempt at an airline, nothing more/nothing less. No one is going to chisel the FlyI logo in to the side of a mountain in rememberance.

 

[aa73]

Surprised the media hasn't picked this up.

8AF...Is that an avatar of the J41 cockpit I see?

Ahh, the memories.... Good luck Indy pilots.

 

[Always deferred]

People act like the management from United was coming in to their homes and kicking their cats.
quote]


Do you remember Bain? Do you remember Mesa, CHQ, TSA, Shuttle American, etc all swooping in to take our flying? DO you remember what UAL did to Air Whisky? I think you should check your facts, son.

 

[skyaddict]

"Now, Tom and Kerry are laughingstocks. Thier egos led us down a path of destruction."

That and the part about the employees being entirely along for the ride says it all. The fact is the pilot group voted overwhelmingly for concessions- yeah, very modest concessions but we voted for them nonetheless around 90% in favor- to *stay* with UAL because, bravado aside, we were very scared of the idea of going it alone, rightly so. Yet it was egos- both at ACA and UAL- which prevented compromise on a deal. And those egos chose the worst possible time to try and give the finger to the mothership. Incredibly, later as the bad timing for the industry became even more obvious, T&K even said no to a codeshare proposal with Virgin, the last straw that *might* have saved the day but also forced them to give up consideable control. Then they maintained total control of a ship that is the equivalent of the final scene in Titanic where it is pointing vertical, while Tom kept spouting off weekly briefings about pride in operational excellence and redskins picks of the week. Thereafter, the employee group's alleged bravado/arrogance had nothing to do with it... we were truly along for the ride, and our giddiness was simply nervous laughter and the hope that "surely" those brilliant (ha) minds at the top had some sort of plan to emerge from this, some secret upcoming deal with Virgin or somebody, lol, they couldn't be *that* stupid to run it into the ground, surely... but they were.

And these big (arrogant) egos are as foolishly addicted to running airlines as we are getting our paychecks from flying, so I wonder how long after liquidation it will be before we see the same senior management creating a startup with one or two airbuses (the business model that might have worked)... i.e. will these guys really be banished from the industry or not? Tons of senior airline execs have been with several failed startups before hitting paydirt. You have to wonder what these guys were sniffing this round, though.

 

[dalegribble]

Regardless of the mgmt sucking, the crews, pilots and fa's are top notch dedicated folks. Flew with IDE last night and received outstanding customer service from smiling fa's. Good Luck!!!

 

[FlyBunny]

Well said, Rez, very well said!

It makes me chuckle too each time I read a former/current ACA pilot post pounding their chest saying how proud they were to ‘kick’ down the UAL offer?

Wow…did those guys/gals lived with their parents all this time?
Did they not have a mortgage?
Loans to pay back?
Kids?
Bills?

If they took a bit of concession, they would all have jobs today? Over 1,000 pilots (and FA’s and all other employees) sent home after so many years of service. I know someone in the administration who worked there for ten years and he, like everyone else, has to start all over. Why do we, as pilots, only think about ourselves and not the whole operation? What about other employees?

What do those ACA pilots (who turned down UAL offer) think of NWA and Delta pilots who took cuts to preserve not only their jobs but also the airline itself?

It’s sad to see ACA end like this. I had fun traveling on it and the crew and everyone else was fantastic. I get quite a tickle from this one guy who was pounding his chest for ‘kicking UAL’ in the gut, losing his job, being unemployed for over a year…and then getting hired by the UAL commuter with even less pay then he way earning what he would’ve earned had ACA pilots approved the UAL offer; still he boasts about his ‘proud moment’. He still lives with his parents with no loans or bills to pay.

 

[Propblast]

Well said, Rez, very well said!

It makes me chuckle too each time I read a former/current ACA pilot post pounding their chest saying how proud they were to ‘kick’ down the UAL offer?

Wow…did those guys/gals lived with their parents all this time?
Did they not have a mortgage?
Loans to pay back?
Kids?
Bills?

If they took a bit of concession, they would all have jobs today? Over 1,000 pilots (and FA’s and all other employees) sent home after so many years of service. I know someone in the administration who worked there for ten years and he, like everyone else, has to start all over. Why do we, as pilots, only think about ourselves and not the whole operation? What about other employees?

What do those ACA pilots (who turned down UAL offer) think of NWA and Delta pilots who took cuts to preserve not only their jobs but also the airline itself?

It’s sad to see ACA end like this. I had fun traveling on it and the crew and everyone else was fantastic. I get quite a tickle from this one guy who was pounding his chest for ‘kicking UAL’ in the gut, losing his job, being unemployed for over a year…and then getting hired by the UAL commuter with even less pay then he way earning what he would’ve earned had ACA pilots approved the UAL offer; still he boasts about his ‘proud moment’. He still lives with his parents with no loans or bills to pay.

I don't know about pounding on the chest but the bottom line was signing a contract with UAL would have been signing our own death sentence. The contract would have been for less flying than we had at the time (some had already been farmed out to mesa, tsa and others) so we would have furloughed immediately. The proposed contract actually had no term and allowed UAL to farm out our flying immediately - we we're the most expensive regional around at that time and they wanted to cut costs. That was the deal that UAL wanted the company to sign. At that point, IDE was the best option.

Your assertion that if we took a bit of a concession we would all have jobs today is just plain wrong. I think the DAL and NWA pilots who have taken concessions to preserve their companies are doing what they have to - are you comparing us and them? If so, you are comparing apples to Buicks. Supporting the decision to leave UAL was not a "FU!" decision - it was the lesser of two deals with a huge amount of risk for job loss.

-PB

 

[h25b]

Do you remember Bain? Do you remember Mesa, CHQ, TSA, Shuttle American, etc all swooping in to take our flying? DO you remember what UAL did to Air Whisky? I think you should check your facts, son.

Got my facts straight "Dad," thanks...

All of the things you listed above.. IT'S CALLED BUSINESS !!! It ain't personal and both parties involved in the situation made BUSINESS decisions.

ACA decided they couldn't operate for what United was willing to pay so they decided to strike out on their own with a business model that EVERYONE said would fail... And guess what? IT DID. If it makes you proud to say that you went along for the ride, good for you..

 

[Yeah]

People act like the management from United was coming in to their homes and kicking their cats.
quote]


Do you remember Bain? Do you remember Mesa, CHQ, TSA, Shuttle American, etc all swooping in to take our flying? DO you remember what UAL did to Air Whisky? I think you should check your facts, son.

Do you remember that we did vote in the UAL TA? Remember? We (the pilot group) voted in the pay cut to keep the UAL flying. We wanted to be UAL's bitch. If memory serves me the TA passed by 68%.

 

[Always deferred]

Got my facts straight "Dad," thanks...

All of the things you listed above.. IT'S CALLED BUSINESS !!! It ain't personal and both parties involved in the situation made BUSINESS decisions.

ACA decided they couldn't operate for what United was willing to pay so they decided to strike out on their own with a business model that EVERYONE said would fail... And guess what? IT DID. If it makes you proud to say that you went along for the ride, good for you..

The point is that all was not hunky-dorey with United. They were prepared to sign our death sentence. SO we did it first. We didn't just strije out on our own for the hell of it.

 

[Always deferred]

Got my facts straight "Dad," thanks...

All of the things you listed above.. IT'S CALLED BUSINESS !!! It ain't personal and both parties involved in the situation made BUSINESS decisions.

ACA decided they couldn't operate for what United was willing to pay so they decided to strike out on their own with a business model that EVERYONE said would fail... And guess what? IT DID. If it makes you proud to say that you went along for the ride, good for you..

The point is that all was not hunky-dorey with United. They were prepared to sign our death sentence. SO we did it first. We didn't just strike out on our own for the hell of it.

 

[Publishers]

Management tries like hell to do poorly, screw employees, and make terrible strategic moves.

 

[Taildragon]

ATTENTION ALL REMAINING INDY EMPLOYEES
Hey my heart goes out to you, that said, whatever you do don't hold on to the Titanic too long. I went through this already once this year, C8. BAIL NOW and don't look back!

 

[j41driver]

You know what's funny? Had we kept the UAL flying because we took the paycuts mgmt wanted, we would have been blasted for once again lowering the bar. Now a couple years later we're getting blasted for not taking the pay cuts to keep the UAL flying. Whatever...

 

[j41driver]

What do those ACA pilots (who turned down UAL offer) think of NWA and Delta pilots who took cuts to preserve not only their jobs but also the airline itself?

I could be mistaken but I believe that NWA and DAL pilots make considerably more than an ACA pilot. Should we have worked for whatever mgmt wanted to pay us to save our jobs?

BTW - If you look at the financials, the pilots at ACA/IDE could have worked for free since the inception of IDE and it still would have lost money.