Incidents? or Accidents?

[DiverDriver]

First, I will take whatever is posted here with a grain of salt and weigh it carefully before acting/not acting on it.

Ok, while filling out an application I get to the part of incidents or accidents. I've had some odd occurences over the years and while flying skydivers I have had two skydivers die after leaving my plane. Neither occurence has a NTSB report for accident and I believe that to be correct. However, is it an incident that should be listed? Again, my name is not attached to any report with these fatalities but I still wonder about "full disclosure" when asked this on an app and in an interview. I want to be truthful and answer the question exactly as asked.

So: What has anyone else done with similar experiences and what results have you had with your applications?

 

[aa73]

Methinks they are talking about an actual incident/accident involving your aircraft with you at the controls - not the customer results of the actual skydive itself. If they died from their chute not opening, or getting entangled in your aircraft after they jumped, I don't see how you'd be at fault. This is just my opinion on how I see it - I could be wrong.

 

[Skyboy722]

First, I will take whatever is posted here with a grain of salt and weigh it carefully before acting/not acting on it.

Ok, while filling out an application I get to the part of incidents or accidents. I've had some odd occurences over the years and while flying skydivers I have had two skydivers die after leaving my plane. Neither occurence has a NTSB report for accident and I believe that to be correct. However, is it an incident that should be listed? Again, my name is not attached to any report with these fatalities but I still wonder about "full disclosure" when asked this on an app and in an interview. I want to be truthful and answer the question exactly as asked.

So: What has anyone else done with similar experiences and what results have you had with your applications?

Provided these jumpers' reserves were in date, the jumps were made legally, (cloud clearances, etc.) and the jumpers' deaths occurred after clearing the plane, (and not striking it), they are skydiving accidents, not aircraft accidents, and you are in no way associated with the event. I've had the same thing happen, and gotten the same clarification, FWIW... Not to worry.

 

[Vspeeds]

Seek Legal Advice!

My best advice would be to "Seek Legal Advice" from a Lawyer.

In that case, all guess work, speculations & etc. etc will be eliminated.

Just my .02 cents!

 

[AWACoff]

Diverdriver,
A good portion of my interview at CAL was talking about flying jumpers. Obviously they wanted the "gooshy" stories too. The only thing I ever mentioned about skydiving on Airlineapps was listing my employer who I flew the meatballs for. When going through my logbook one of the interviewers noticed some emergencies and jumper injuries and inquired about them. After talking about how fun skydiving personally was for me and asking them if they had ever jumped, we went onto other questions. No problem at all. It turned out to be quite positive interview subject. Who da thunk?
P.S. Thanks for the website C.!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Diver Driver - you used the right word to describe these "occurrences." Unless it had something to do with your, or your employer's, operation of the aircraft I do not see the relevance.

 

[DiverDriver]

Thanks for the input folks. This is the way I was thinking. No "incident" to report but if asked about interesting experieces in the interview I could bring it up then and how it was dealt with.

 

[_BravoWhiskey_]

For what it is worth. I have unfortunately have had several people who have jumped out of my plane have a malfunction or make a mistake and perish. I hate to say it, but it is more common than not to have at least one swoop go bad per boogie (and I flew a lot of those), and on one very sad day I was flying a formation where one of the jumpers was killed in the only case of a fatal hard opening that I have ever heard of.

All of these serious injuries and fatalities were investigated, mostly by local law enforcement, the FAA having delegated the authority to them. Occasionally the FAA had a representative in attendance at the event.

I have never heard any follow up or result from any of these investigations. The only case I have heard of where the pilot was found in violation was the relatively recent mid-air collision at Deland between the aircraft and a jumper, and believe me, jumpers being injured or killed in colliding with an aircraft on the ground is not rare, thank G-d that it never happened to me.

The upshot of all this: If you have never received anything in writing from the FAA then you have not been investigated as being a potential cause of the incident or accident. I wouldn't bring it up unless directly asked, if they do ask, I would answer that yes, regrettably people have died while skydiving from my aircraft. If they wanted the gory details, I personally would not go into it, out of respect to the families and friends. For me, I have seen enough of that to last a lifetime, and really don't think an interview is a place to bring it up. If they want stories, I am certain that you have plenty of good stories, given that you are a driver. I have had this happen in interviews, and was able to succesfully deflect it into a lighter hearted story of an emergency or event that had a positive outcome.

Hope this helps. If I can help at all PM me.

BW

(PS - I have also had interviews where it went like this "you flew for ... insert name of DZ and fleet owner here...? and you're still alive? You're hired!") Funny, sad, but 100% true.

 

[AV80R]

However, is it an incident that should be listed?

Well, as a former recruiter for a small regional personally I would list it with a brief explanation that the incident is mentioned in your permanent FAA file. They will undoubtedly ask you about your footnote during the interview and now is your chance of turning this into a "positive" learning experience when it comes to safety, etc. In other words, what I learned from this is...

Interviewers are sooo tired of the same boring stories; this would be your chance to somehow stand out. I am sorry about what happened to those skydivers but maybe you can teach others what not to do?

Those are just my thoughts...Good luck to you, you'll be fine...

 

[FlyingGuy]

I would request a copy of your records from the Accident and Incident database from the FAA. Accidents and incidents have specific definitions. This information is not included in the normal data in your FAA file obtainable through the Pilot Records Improvement Act. Airlines can get a copy of the accidents and incidents on applicants through FOIA though I don't know if they actually do or not. Here is a shortcut to how to do this: http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/overview/media/Info Provided By PRIA FOIA and PA.rtf

The FAA's opinion is that having an accident should not be an indication that a pilot should be hired or not. However the airlines can do whatever they want. If your request comes back listing an accident or incident then definitely put in on the app. If there was no FAA violation then I would hope that any accident would not rule you out of a good job. Dishonesty or omission can come back to haunt you. If the file comes back empty then I would not mention the "occurrences".