Inappropriate comments about RJ crash?

[propjockey]

Nobody is ridiculing these pilots. But to blame "this POS airplane" is an exercise in futility -- blame it all you want, and the plane is not going to change its behavior.

Despite its many shortcomings, not the least of which is thrust, this airplane gives you LOTS of warning that it's about to stall. If a pilot chooses to ignore those warnings and pushes it over the edge, how can you blame the aircraft?

 

[PCL_128]

It's easy to ridicule the pilots for this unfortunate accident. How come no one is outraged at this POS airplane? You should be able to fly an airplane up to it max altitude empty. My god, even an Embraer ERJ will do that.

The CRJ certainly isn't the best climber in the world, but that does not make it a "POS." The airplane performs perfectly if you follow the book and respect the limits of the performance charts. I've taken the plane to FL410 and it did just fine. We were empty and it was a very cold day. If you try to do the same thing when it's ISA+15 then the plane won't do it. Again, you just have to respect the limits within the performance charts. The airplane is not the problem.

 

[Inconceivable]

They just demonstrated in the performance charts that the airplane could fly just fine.

What it can't do is start a climb at FL330 to 410 starting at M 0.67, holding a VS climb of 500fpm. I doubt that the ERJ can either.

This isn't even adressing the fact that the FO and CA switched seats during the climb, rotated so agressively that there was a 1.7G load and stick shaker. Or the fact that from 15,000 to 25,000 the control column was pulled back to get the pusher and shaker multiple times and agressive rudder inputs were made.

The shaker activated seven times and the pusher six. Pilot input varied the pitch between +10 and -20 degrees of pitch. As a result of stalling the airplane maximum pitch excursions reached +28 and -31 degrees. The AoA reached maximum excursions of +27 and -9 degrees. The G loading, not shown on the chart, was revelaed through testimony as going as low as 0.2 as the crew performed multiple pushovers during climb.

Somehow, a "whoops, my bad" doesn't seem to cover it. Any wonder why PCL is dumping the CVR and FDRs ater part 91 legs?

See for yourself: http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/iic_opening_speech.htm

 

[TonyC]

I was reading the CVR transcript while I was listening to the hearing.


I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

Last word on the CVR? dude.




20 minutes from initial stick shaker to impact.



.

 

[PCL_128]

I was reading the CVR transcript while I was listening to the hearing.


I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

Last word on the CVR? dude.




20 minutes from initial stick shaker to impact.



.

Do you have a link for the transcript? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Inconceivable]

The public docket items:
http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/default.htm

The CVR in particular:
http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/CVR_Factual.pdf

Hope you have a strong tummy.

 

[TonyC]

Do you have a link for the transcript? I can't find it anywhere.

Cockpit Voice Recorder 12 - Factual Report of Group Chairman


Exhibit Items from the Public Docket


Details






.

 

[CRJ puppy]

It's all absolutely sickening.

Go read and listen for yourself. All the above links are right on.

Let it be a reminder and a lesson for us all.

 

[barnyard]

Thanks for the links, Tony.

Lets all be careful out there....

 

[FreedomAList]

Mandatory reading for all Crj pilots.

Poor bastards.

Rest in peace.

 

[fuzzy077]

Poor bastards.

Comon... have a little respect will ya?

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

F-in A.

 

[joe_pilot]

My post from another thread.....


I'm really getting pissed off about this right now (again). We all want to (and will) learn from all of this, but I can't stomach people with little or no experience in the industry (with the exception of riding in the back) having diarrhea of the mouth. From the un-official information I have heard and read, the crew doesn’t appear blameless, but to portray their actions in the light Mr. Stempler did is just plain sensationalism. He didn’t have to use the language that he did, so why did he? It would appear that he wants to get a sound bite on FOX, CNN and Headline News. Why? Because it drums up business for his fee-based Air Travelers Association.


In my opinion, he is just another guy (and aviation lawyer) trying to make a buck at the expense of others.


A search of the airman registry for D Stempler returned 0 records, but I found this interesting article.

Again,


RIP guys.

 

[FL000]

20 minutes from initial stick shaker to impact.

and 13 minutes to 'fess up to losing both engines.

 

[AutoCars Armed]

I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

DUDE
DUDE
DUDE​

 

[Captain Overs]

The CRJ certainly isn't the best climber in the world, but that does not make it a "POS." The airplane performs perfectly if you follow the book and respect the limits of the performance charts. I've taken the plane to FL410 and it did just fine. We were empty and it was a very cold day. If you try to do the same thing when it's ISA+15 then the plane won't do it. Again, you just have to respect the limits within the performance charts. The airplane is not the problem.

I was unaware that the pilots were acting in a way they shouldn't have. That changes things. If the airplane is giving you a warning, as someone else mentioned, then you take the chance it'll bite you.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I was pretty much speechless after reading that CVR.


Anybody notice the {whistling} thing just before the first stall event? Nearly all accident CVR's with situations where the pilots were doing something way wrong include one or more of the pilots whistling to themselves. Pretty eerie.

I cannot believe they switched seats. Flew with Jesse a few days before the accident... no indications of any behavior like this.

Furthermore I can't believe that they let the plane get that far...it was telling them over and over that it didn't like being up there. Ugh.

 

[AutoCars Armed]

Peanuckle about sums it up. I withdraw any of my previous defenses of this crew. It was scary to read that CVR transcript.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I was reading the CVR transcript while I was listening to the hearing.

I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

Last word on the CVR? dude.

Thats being a bit arrogant, don't you think? Sure, these guys did some stupid things (seat swapping, over-rotating, etc..) and I'm not trying to defend them for that....but can you think back to a few times where you would've sounded like a fool on a CVR if it had ever been made public? So they said "dude" a lot...so do I sometimes...and so do some of the 40 something year old guys that I fly with...who really gives a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**?

 

[AirBill]

These comments are really scary:


"..it ain't speeding up worth #."
"this # nose is. look at how nose high we are."
"I know that's #. dude the # ball's way off man. dude the ball's full off."

So it's uncoordinated and nose-up. But then:

# thing's losing it.
[sound of laughing]
...we're losing here. we're gonna be # coming down in a second here dude.
[sound of laughing]
this thing ain't gonna # hold altitude. is it?
it can't man we # (cruised/greased) up here but it won't stay.
yeah that's funny we got up here it won't stay here.
dude it's # losing it. [sound of laughing]
yeah.


Has there been any discussion about flying that high at night, and its effect on your body? We're all taught about it, but one of the known factors is that impairment is worse and comes on earlier at night. I haven't seen the NTSB even look in that direction.

These guys did some stupid things, and it's very uncomfortable to read the CVR. But at some point, it seems like their judgment just dropped off the scale. I mean, the airplane is telling you that you're getting into serious trouble, and your only response is to laugh? Something not right there.