Inappropriate comments about RJ crash?

[propjockey]

I read the entire article and find it to be neither sensationalistic nor irresponsible -- even Stempler's comments.

Please don't let your natural response to defend our pilot brothers and our industry turn to unfounded righteous indignation. It is not disrespectful of those who have passed on to admit that they may have made some mistakes with lethal consequences. It is our job to learn from them.

If the collective "WE" are guilty of messing around on an empty leg (which I dare say most of us have done at some point in our careers), maybe it's time for the collective "US" to own up and grow up. I have nothing against having fun, but we must be mature enough to distinguish between fun and irresponsibility.

As someone pointed out above, just because the airplane is "certified" to FL410 doesn't mean you ought to take it there. With warmer weather and heavy loads, I am frequently concerned about FL350, let alone FL410.

 

[acaTerry]

In light of the replies to my post, I must be missing something. I didn't even know the NTSB put out a preliminary yet.

I'll go look it up.

 

[TonyC]

In light of the replies to my post, I must be missing something. I didn't even know the NTSB put out a preliminary yet.

I'll go look it up.

The NTSB Public Hearings are in progress even as we type. (Click on the link to navigate to a live webcast video feed.)








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[Captain Overs]

It's easy to ridicule the pilots for this unfortunate accident. How come no one is outraged at this POS airplane? You should be able to fly an airplane up to it max altitude empty. My god, even an Embraer ERJ will do that.

 

[kmox29]

So regardless of atmospheric conditions, I should be angry at Saab Fairchild for producing an aircraft that can't make it up to FL250 even if there is no one on board?

 

[propjockey]

Nobody is ridiculing these pilots. But to blame "this POS airplane" is an exercise in futility -- blame it all you want, and the plane is not going to change its behavior.

Despite its many shortcomings, not the least of which is thrust, this airplane gives you LOTS of warning that it's about to stall. If a pilot chooses to ignore those warnings and pushes it over the edge, how can you blame the aircraft?

 

[PCL_128]

It's easy to ridicule the pilots for this unfortunate accident. How come no one is outraged at this POS airplane? You should be able to fly an airplane up to it max altitude empty. My god, even an Embraer ERJ will do that.

The CRJ certainly isn't the best climber in the world, but that does not make it a "POS." The airplane performs perfectly if you follow the book and respect the limits of the performance charts. I've taken the plane to FL410 and it did just fine. We were empty and it was a very cold day. If you try to do the same thing when it's ISA+15 then the plane won't do it. Again, you just have to respect the limits within the performance charts. The airplane is not the problem.

 

[Inconceivable]

They just demonstrated in the performance charts that the airplane could fly just fine.

What it can't do is start a climb at FL330 to 410 starting at M 0.67, holding a VS climb of 500fpm. I doubt that the ERJ can either.

This isn't even adressing the fact that the FO and CA switched seats during the climb, rotated so agressively that there was a 1.7G load and stick shaker. Or the fact that from 15,000 to 25,000 the control column was pulled back to get the pusher and shaker multiple times and agressive rudder inputs were made.

The shaker activated seven times and the pusher six. Pilot input varied the pitch between +10 and -20 degrees of pitch. As a result of stalling the airplane maximum pitch excursions reached +28 and -31 degrees. The AoA reached maximum excursions of +27 and -9 degrees. The G loading, not shown on the chart, was revelaed through testimony as going as low as 0.2 as the crew performed multiple pushovers during climb.

Somehow, a "whoops, my bad" doesn't seem to cover it. Any wonder why PCL is dumping the CVR and FDRs ater part 91 legs?

See for yourself: http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/iic_opening_speech.htm

 

[TonyC]

I was reading the CVR transcript while I was listening to the hearing.


I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

Last word on the CVR? dude.




20 minutes from initial stick shaker to impact.



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[PCL_128]

I was reading the CVR transcript while I was listening to the hearing.


I thought I would throw up if I read the word "dude" one more time.

Last word on the CVR? dude.




20 minutes from initial stick shaker to impact.



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Do you have a link for the transcript? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Inconceivable]

The public docket items:
http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/default.htm

The CVR in particular:
http://ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/CVR_Factual.pdf

Hope you have a strong tummy.

 

[TonyC]

Do you have a link for the transcript? I can't find it anywhere.

Cockpit Voice Recorder 12 - Factual Report of Group Chairman


Exhibit Items from the Public Docket


Details






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[CRJ puppy]

It's all absolutely sickening.

Go read and listen for yourself. All the above links are right on.

Let it be a reminder and a lesson for us all.

 

[barnyard]

Thanks for the links, Tony.

Lets all be careful out there....

 

[FreedomAList]

Mandatory reading for all Crj pilots.

Poor bastards.

Rest in peace.