PilotwQuestions
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In defense of USA Jet
- Thread starter pilotyip
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True in the sense that are some conditions where notification is required. False in the sense that most businesses will purposely ensure they don't cross the threshold requirements.
Would it apply too say a specific aircraft such as a Falcon 20 operation being SHUTDOWN and all pilots and support personal laid off?
freightdawg
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Actually, by my understanding - and, yes, I am a USA Jet alum - you could be laid off / terminated at any time, for any reason, and they don't have to tell you why at all. It's literally at their will. To the best of my knowledge, the statement earlier that this is always true in abscence of a contract is correct.
Rez O. Lewshun
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Way2Broke
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Hell has frozen over, a strong union guy is giving credit to a strong anti-union guy. Pilot Yip, while optimistic to a fault, is a very personable guy that wants to see the people he has helped succeed. He pretty much was the hiring board at USA Jet, and he wrote a pilot policy handbook that set the standard for other on-demand companies. The power to enforce that handbook was sometimes limited, but, at no point do I think he was out to get anyone. I will always owe him a debt of gratitude for giving me the opportunities that were provided to me at USA Jet. We did not always see eye to eye, but I know that without him I would not have never flown a USA Jet Falcon. I'm fortunate too have had the opportunity to meet the people I did at USA Jet and get the training I did while at USA Jet.
And another +2.
Being a professional (Doctor/lawyer/MBA) is no exception to this rule. My ex was escorted from her place of work when she was let go. She was a Dr, and later told me it was the most humiliating thing in her life, not because of how it happened, but because she thought herself immune to that type of thing.
We hear all the time about executives getting a golden parachute and what not when getting canned, but in reality, this happens to a microscopic fraction of people.
Nu
Wrong.
It applied to Continental in regards to their furloughs and they didn't shut down the company. Read up on the WARN Act and come back here to post the truth.
Hugh Johnson
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Employee Coverage
Employees entitled to notice under WARN include hourly and salaried workers, as well as managerial and supervisory employees. Business partners are not entitled to notice.
What Triggers Notice
Plant Closing: A covered employer must give notice if an employment site (or one or more facilities or operating units within an employment site) will be shut down, and the shutdown will result in an employment loss (as defined later) for 50 or more employees during any 30-day period. This does not count employees who have worked less than 6 months in the last 12 months or employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week for that employer. These latter groups, however, are entitled to notice (discussed later).
Mass Layoff: A covered employer must give notice if there is to be a mass layoff which does not result from a plant closing, but which will result in an employment loss at the employment site during any 30-day period for 500 or more employees, or for 50-499 employees if they make up at least 33% of the employer's active workforce. Again, this does not count employees who have worked less than 6 months in the last 12 months or employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week for that employer. These latter groups, however, are entitled to notice (discussed later).
An employer also must give notice if the number of employment losses which occur during a 30-day period fails to meet the threshold requirements of a plant closing or mass layoff, but the number of employment losses for 2 or more groups of workers, each of which is less than the minimum number needed to trigger notice, reaches the threshold level, during any 90-day period, of either a plant closing or mass layoff. Job losses within any 90-day period will count together toward WARN threshold levels, unless the employer demonstrates that the employment losses during the 90-day period are the result of separate and distinct actions and causes.
http://www.doleta.gov/programs/factsht/warn.htm
Employees entitled to notice under WARN include hourly and salaried workers, as well as managerial and supervisory employees. Business partners are not entitled to notice.
What Triggers Notice
Plant Closing: A covered employer must give notice if an employment site (or one or more facilities or operating units within an employment site) will be shut down, and the shutdown will result in an employment loss (as defined later) for 50 or more employees during any 30-day period. This does not count employees who have worked less than 6 months in the last 12 months or employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week for that employer. These latter groups, however, are entitled to notice (discussed later).
Mass Layoff: A covered employer must give notice if there is to be a mass layoff which does not result from a plant closing, but which will result in an employment loss at the employment site during any 30-day period for 500 or more employees, or for 50-499 employees if they make up at least 33% of the employer's active workforce. Again, this does not count employees who have worked less than 6 months in the last 12 months or employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week for that employer. These latter groups, however, are entitled to notice (discussed later).
An employer also must give notice if the number of employment losses which occur during a 30-day period fails to meet the threshold requirements of a plant closing or mass layoff, but the number of employment losses for 2 or more groups of workers, each of which is less than the minimum number needed to trigger notice, reaches the threshold level, during any 90-day period, of either a plant closing or mass layoff. Job losses within any 90-day period will count together toward WARN threshold levels, unless the employer demonstrates that the employment losses during the 90-day period are the result of separate and distinct actions and causes.
http://www.doleta.gov/programs/factsht/warn.htm
Hung Start
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The WARN Act is just a polite way of saying "you're out".
Back in the early 90's, Raytheon decided to "downsize". Hundreds, (yes, hundreds) of highly educated engineers were all called into an auditorium for a meeting. These were professionals, many with masters and doctors degrees. The doors were locked with dozens of uniformed, armed guards at the doors. After they were all terminated, everybody was led out the door single filed, to the parking lot. You could not even go to retrieve your car keys. The deal was you were to be notified when you could return to your office to pick up your personal items, at a later time. And, you were escorted to/from your office, and had to show to the person standing over you, exactly what you were taking. Just personal pictures, no pens, files, nothing.
Humiliating,, you bet.
Can it still be done today,, sure can.
There is very, very little loyalty on both sides of the table. Just the world we live in, I'm afraid.
Hung
Back in the early 90's, Raytheon decided to "downsize". Hundreds, (yes, hundreds) of highly educated engineers were all called into an auditorium for a meeting. These were professionals, many with masters and doctors degrees. The doors were locked with dozens of uniformed, armed guards at the doors. After they were all terminated, everybody was led out the door single filed, to the parking lot. You could not even go to retrieve your car keys. The deal was you were to be notified when you could return to your office to pick up your personal items, at a later time. And, you were escorted to/from your office, and had to show to the person standing over you, exactly what you were taking. Just personal pictures, no pens, files, nothing.
Humiliating,, you bet.
Can it still be done today,, sure can.
There is very, very little loyalty on both sides of the table. Just the world we live in, I'm afraid.
Hung
Golden Falcon
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Rez O. Lewshun
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That is right..... I recognize the guy... his actions are clear... while we might not agree on some issues... I am sure we agree on most....
So does that make me weaker? that I can function is the grey...?
atpcliff
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Hi.
USA Jet shut down their Falcon program (and one of the Lears-maybe also the King Air) and terminated about 1/3 of the total employees in YIP, their non-governmental contract base and their HQ.
About 1/3 of the pilots were terminated, and they were not terminated according to the Pilot Policy Handbook (which can happen because there is no union and no contract-the company can change the rules at will).
cliff
YIP
USA Jet shut down their Falcon program (and one of the Lears-maybe also the King Air) and terminated about 1/3 of the total employees in YIP, their non-governmental contract base and their HQ.
About 1/3 of the pilots were terminated, and they were not terminated according to the Pilot Policy Handbook (which can happen because there is no union and no contract-the company can change the rules at will).
cliff
YIP
pilotyip
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no policy
I do not defend the way it was done, and I was not part of it, but there was no policy for equipment elimination, the exisiting policy was termination by senority in eqipment. In case you have not noticed, we have big problems, a union would have had little effect on the lay offs, in there might have been more of them.
Princedietrich
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