Im Tired Of Fuel Prices

[SteveR]

If you want to change gas prices, you have to actually lower your consumption. Not buying gas for a day does not lower your consumption. The oil companies will honestly never even know. The buried tanks that gas stations have in effect are a huge buffer, and since consumption would increase immediately before and immediately after that day, most gas stations would likely order the same amount of gas. This is a stupid idea, and was likely only put out as an e-mail forwarding gimmick for stupid people, much like the "Bill Gates will give you $250,000 if you forward this e-mail. Stupid.

If you want to change gas prices, you better boycott for greater period....like six months. Oh yeah, get at least 40% of the rest of the driving world to do the same thing. Another effect would likely be that the world economy would collapse due to the lack of productivity, but that is another story.

Also, given China's drastic increase in use of raw materials, oil included, fuel prices aren't going to go down, not in our lifetimes. They are likely to get much, much higher, it is simple supply and demand. Unless a massive source of energy is developed to replace fossil fuels, we won't be driving as much as we do now in 30 or 40 years. There just isn't enough oil to keep up with the current rate of increase in demand.

You'll get much more accomplished in the future if you start with a reasonable, well thought out plan.

 

[jarhead]

In a perverted sort of a way, it would be good for everyone once gasoline reaches a price of $5.00 a gallon in the U.S. (as it is in many places in the world now). The reason I say that, is that at $5.00 a gallon, the U.S. could shift its dependence on oil based gasoline, to gas made from coal, as Sasol does in South Africa, and now in China as well. Gasoline made from coal gasification is too expensive to attract investment in that viable energy source. No one would buy the stuff at $5.00 a gallon, when Arabian oil allows for $2.xx a gallon. People will buy $4.00 a gallon gasoline before they buy $5.00 a gallon Sasol. This is not a “Greed” issue. It simply is more expensive to produce gasoline from coal than from crude oil.

The U.S. has an estimated 1000 year’s supply of coal reserves. This initiative will take time to build the infrastructure to produce all we need, but it could totally eliminate the need for imported oil. Our own crude could supply what other products that we use from crude oil. But, this investment, like all others, is driven by the markets and what the costs are to make the investment, and the attendant risk for return on investment is perceived as being worth it..

I have no idea of what the environmental impact is, but it does not seem to have adversely affected the environment in Johannesburg

 

[jergar999]

A few other things to think about:

1. Oil companies make money when they sell bulk oil and gasoline to distributors/repackagers and not when you pump it in at the gas station.

2. Just because you don't buy gas one day will not change anything. If you do the same amount of driving, you will buy the same amount of gas regardless of which day or date you purchase it. The only way to make a difference is to buy a fuel efficient vehicle or drive less.

Now, if you copy this post and send it to 50 people, the fractional, airline, or corporate job of your choice will call within 15 minutes.

 

[photopilot]

My family owns an independant gas station. We opened it in 1983. The most we have ever made was five cents on the gallon, and that was the good ole days. Mostly the markup is 1-2 cents, and right now we are selling it at cost to keep up with the name brand conveniance stores. My dad has said several times that he wishes he could just stop selling it, it is more trouble than it is worth. Only thing is, if you don't sell gas then people will not come in for the other things. One thing in addition to the cost of gas from our suppliers that affects cost is regulatory compliance. A few years ago we had to dig up our tanks and replace them due to upgraded environmental rules. That cost a crapload. So before anyone starts bashing on the retailers, just keep in mind that a lot of us independants are struggling to keep our head above water right now.

 

[jarhead]

The U.S. is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Here are the top five nation's proven reserves of coal:

Reliable Enough for Baseload Operations

Many large countries contain significant proven reserves of coal. While data quality varies widely, the countries with the greatest estimated recoverable reserves of coal are --


United States 273 billion tons
Russia 173 billion tons
China 126 billion tons
India 93 billion tons
Australia 90 billion tons

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Im not going to drive a Fruckin Toyota Prius....

That Soccer biatch in her Excursion with the three kids yappin to her other SUV mom friends on the cell???... wouldn't even know she killed you in that tiny POS Prius..

Its just self defense man...mass wins....aint worth the 50 mpg to me.

Who gives a $hit what gas costs? anybody driving less? I seriously doubt it...

everyone says how great those hybrid $hitboxes are but everyone is still buying full size cars and trucks..and that will never change.

And thats too bad.


PS - I did get a kick out of John Kerry talking about reducing our dependency on oil...then hopping in his fleet of Suburbans to drive to the airport and get aboard his wifes GV. (she let him use it..)

 

[sstearns2]

Actually SUVs are significantly less safe than passenger cars. SUVs are concidered trucks and not designed to anywhere near the safety standards that are required of cars. An SUV may be safer in a headon with a Prius, but an SUV is less safe in the majority of accident types. You'd have to do something pretty violent to get the Prius to roll over.

Scott

 

[starchkr]

OK, here we go...I DID SOME MATH.


Costs of production per gallon are as follows...

$0.65 non-processing cost
$0.04 people costs (labor)
$0.08 distribution*
$0.10 processing costs (running the refineries)
---------------
TOTAL OF

$0.87 per gallon final costs to merchants.


lets add taxes...which are $0.40 (on the high side...including both federal and state) bringing 1 gallon to a whopping total of $1.27.

So maybe my friend was off a little with his .99 making profits. Tell you what though...just realize, when you pay $2 per gallon you will be paying the merchant a healthy $0.73 profit per gallon...more than 50% of what it costs the merchant to buy it themselves. OK, so maybe you say add in the costs of the merchants payroll and bills per gallon...so lets add$0.10 per gallon. Now the cost is $1.37, still $0.63 per gallon profit. Or maybe even add in $0.20 for payroll and stuff...still $0.53 pg..you get the point.

*distribution costs are total for the continental US

 

[starchkr]

A squared...

you are right, you do not get 1 gallon of gas for 1 gallon of crude.

You get many types of fuels from that same gallon of crude...some being:

GAS/LPG (aka-Burner fuel, Heating/cooking oil, petrochemicals), Gasoline, Jet fuel/Kerosene, Diesel and lubricants all from the distillation towers...now for the vacuum towers: Diesel, Heating oil, Asphalt, power generation and marine fuels.

Now any combination of the above can be made from the same gallon of crude in any amount forseen as needed by the refinery. It could be 50% gasoline 25%jet fuel and 25% LPG and so on... There are also some crudes that will produce some of these by-products better, such as light or heavy crude...which both have different values per gallon. So as you can see, the value of 1 gallon of crude varies, and will not be the same from barrel to barrel. You can get more expensive materials from that same gallon of crude.

 

[Ralgha]

Ralgha

So if prices get high enough ALL the “idiots” will stop driving their SUV’s. What about those drivers of SUV’s who are not idiots? Will they stop driving them too? You know, like the government officials, the wealthy, the folks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who owns 5 humvee’s. To many, the cost of gas does not matter, as it is insignificant to their income or resources.

I’d be careful of making universal social judgments on who should burn gas in what type of conveyance. I see from your profile, that you are involved in flight instruction, with a lot of light aircraft being flown by yourself. If I were to use your social line drawing, I could just as easily assert that if the price of gas goes high enough, maybe all these “idiots” will stop taking flying lessons and boring holes in the sky on sunny afternoons. Same shoe, different foot?

Where did I say all owners/drivers of SUVs were idiots? I didn't, you assumed that. I speak quite literally, I meant exactly what I said, nothing more.

My own definition of "idiot" in this case would be someone who has an SUV soley for the supposed "status symbol" and can not really afford it. Up to their eyebrows in debt so they can ride around in a giant car that makes them look good.

Someone who can really afford it is not an idiot. I made no comment about those people.

 

[414Flyer]

Did you include the cost of the gas the merchants pay? Its a heck of a lot more than 65 cents a gallon right now.

 

[dmspilot00]

Gas prices right now are the result of greedy merchants, nothing else.

That would mean that almost every single merchant in the United States would be collaborating with each other to fix their prices, which would be illegal. Most gas stations are independently owned. In fact, I know of two Shell stations right across the street from each other on an extremely busy highway next to an I-95 interchange, and their prices are always a cent or five different.

You've got to be kidding me to say that every single merchant is gouging its prices. It is not possible. The RETAIL gasoline market is NOT an oligopoly, but quite the contrary--it is almost perfectly competitive. To say they are all fixing prices would break the laws of Economics. Wholesale petroleum IS an oligopoly, so that has to be where the high prices come from.

 

[j41driver]

PS - I did get a kick out of John Kerry talking about reducing our dependency on oil...then hopping in his fleet of Suburbans to drive to the airport and get aboard his wifes GV. (she let him use it..)

She must have moved up! She used to have a G-II, N57HJ.

 

[starchkr]

414...you are right, it costs the merchants around $0.87 right now, not $0.65, that is the cost to the refineries before production. Then add in taxes....blah blah blah...same result as before.

 

[414Flyer]

No, you are still wrong.
From DOE.gov

2004 Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun

Crude Oil
WTI - Cushing 34.31 34.68 36.74 36.75
Brent 31.28 30.86 33.63 33.59
Motor Gasoline
Conventional Regular
New York Harbor 99.84 104.73 109.13 111.95
U.S. Gulf Coast 98.39 102.70 108.98 114.89
Los Angeles 101.92 128.39 126.33 136.46
Rotterdam (ARA) 89.83 91.78 99.57 108.93
Singapore 105.55 94.95 105.11 104.89
Reformulated Regular
New York Harbor 100.02 104.31 108.37 114.80
U.S. Gulf Coast 100.06 103.59 110.61 114.73
Los Angeles 107.92 134.39 132.33 142.58

 

[A Squared]

A squared...

You can get more expensive materials from that same gallon of crude.

Right, like what? yeah there are some products which are more valuable, but the demand is very small so they are not produced in large quantities. example: lubricating oil, buck a quart for retail motor oil, but your car doesn't (or shouldn't) use as much motor oil as gasoline. That's why the refineries use more expensive techniques such as catalytic cracking to increase the yield of shorter molecule hydrocarbons such as gasoline. In general, the lighter the fraction, the higher the value. Gasoline is going to be one of the more valuable products from petroleum. Yeah, jet fuel is more expensive at the pump than gasoline, but that is due to taxes and handling requirements. It's really just Kerosene which is cheap compared to gasoline, it only gets expensive when you call it jet fuel. Propane is right around the same price as gasoline per gallon, which when you consider the more expensive handling and distribution, means that at the refinery it has less value than gasoline. Soooo, the point of all this is that if crude oil is a buck a gallon on the world market, and gasoline is the most valuable product produced in quantity, the price of the raw materials for gasoline are more than a buck a gallon.



Back to your original post, So a local merchant is selling gas at $1.40 a gallon? really, is he still doing it? now? today? How long has he been in business? If there was really all this magic profit to be made selling gas for 60 cents under what everyone else is selling it for, then why hasn't someone else done it? Ya think that the retailers who have been in the business a little more than a few weeks have figured out that over the long haul, you can't do that and make a profit. If there really is .60 cents a gallon of pure greed above and beyond a reasonable profit, then why doesn't some smart retailer start selling it for $1.70 a gallon? that's a reasonable profit *plus* 30 cents a gallon of pure greed, and people will be *flocking* to his pumps to buy gas at 30 cents a gallon below market price.

Or maybe, just maybe there's a little more to it than meets your eye.

 

[flyincheap]

Hmmm gas is still climbing!!

 

[jarhead]

OK, I did my part. I filled up my two cars, got my gas can for the lawn mowers filled, and I even topped off the 30 gallon tank in the boat. All on the 18th of May. Now I won't need to buy any gas on the 19th of May. Hope I helped out in reducing the pump price of gasoline.

 

[furloughfodder]

Speaking of high gas prices:

What is our genius President Dubbya doing to get this under check? He is practically in bed with the Crown Prince of Saudi and we are paying over $2.20 at the pumps?

Not to mention how this is killing all of us in the airline industry…

 

[EagleRJ]

Speaking of high gas prices:

What is our genius President Dubbya doing to get this under check? He is practically in bed with the Crown Prince of Saudi and we are paying over $2.20 at the pumps?

Not to mention how this is killing all of us in the airline industry…

You're right- It's all President Bush's fault. If Clinton was still in office, we'd still be paying $0.85/gal.