I'm Here Doing It...at Avantair

[jonjuan]

Why should the employer have all the "power"?

They don't. You don't HAVE to work there. It's a free country.

 

[jonjuan]

So? Free-market dynamics demand creative solutions for competition. Trapping a workforce via threat of litigation is a circumvention of this philosophy.

It is a free-market. There is no lack of very qualified people more than willing to work there. All of them are very well versed and understand the one year minimum contract. All of them agree to it.

 

[rettofly]

A imprudent contrariety, perhaps the most severe within the bounds of this discussion yet. In the context of fractional/charter air carriage, image, presentation, and consumer confidence are climacterically CRITICAL.

As demonstrated with all requisite logic and attendant reasoning, the blame for attrition lies squarely upon the shoulders of the employer, whom, through avoidable failures on myriad levels, finds themselves incapable of competition. Again, the notion of asymmetrical fault, that there is nothing wrong with me, only with the world itself is psychologically apocryphal.

To wit: as the most candid expression of reason, air carrier managers that loathe pilots may be thought of as introspectively deranged.

I get it now. Your opinion is indisputably correct because you expressed it. All who disagree should shut up because Paradoxus has spoken.

 

[Paradoxus]

I get it now. Your opinion is indisputably correct because you expressed it. All who disagree should shut up because Paradoxus has spoken.

You know better than that.

 

[rettofly]

You know better than that.

I hate to say it, but your stance on this issue discounts, denigrates, disdains, demonizes and demeans any contrary opinion. Your conclusion is stated as self-evident, leaving no room for argument.

Thus, my previous post.

 

[Paradoxus]

I hate to say it, but your stance on this issue discounts, denigrates, disdains, demonizes and demeans any contrary opinion. Your conclusion is stated as self-evident, leaving no room for argument.

Thus, my previous post.

Self-evident is not sufficient justification to place something beyond reproach.

 

[Praetorian]

What makes some air carrier managers loathe pilots? Could some pilots' propensity to jump ship be a factor? Just wondering.

Were you abused as a child? What I'm hearing you say is, "Mommy beat me and tied me to a chair, so I ran away. I'm such a bad person."

 

[Praetorian]

Perhaps seniority actually HURTS pilots more than it helps....???

Yes, I think you're right in so many ways well beyond the scope of this discussion. What's your plan to abolish/exterminate seniority lists from aviation?

 

[Paradoxus]

Yes, I think you're right in so many ways well beyond the scope of this discussion. What's your plan to abolish/exterminate seniority lists from aviation?

A replacement via bullsh*t favoritism, most likely. In this way, the sewer-spawned, over-swelled ranks of management may be more effortlessly replenished with legions more incompetent.

 

[rettofly]

Self-evident is not sufficient justification to place something beyond reproach.

That's my point.

 

[rettofly]

Were you abused as a child? What I'm hearing you say is, "Mommy beat me and tied me to a chair, so I ran away. I'm such a bad person."

Your logic escapes me.

Just to put your mind at ease: I was not abused as a child, nor was I abused as an adult (I never put up with any attempts). Oh.. I'm not a bad person, unless being able to see the logic of reasonable training contracts makes me one. If so.. guilty as charged.

 

[rettofly]

A replacement via bullsh*t favoritism, most likely. In this way, the sewer-spawned, over-swelled ranks of management may be more effortlessly replenished with legions more incompetent.

Speaking of seniority... is it justifiable for a prospective employer to ask a successful applicant who happens to be on furlough to resign his / her seniority number as a condition of employment?

 

[Paradoxus]

Speaking of seniority... is it justifiable for a prospective employer to ask a successful applicant who happens to be on furlough to resign his / her seniority number as a condition of employment?

Of course not.

Addendum: I wouldn't comply with such an audacious request, however, unless the job was hella-special.

 

[glasspilot]

Of course not.

Addendum: I wouldn't comply with such an audacious request, however, unless the job was hella-special.

Well, when I got to Avantair they were exactly what I was looking for. A young company with a TON of potential. I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a company that was going to "explode". I knew a guy who was hired as number 40 at Jet Blue. At the time we all said, "JetWho?" and wished him luck at his little project. We sort of snickered at the time too.

Well, I learned a great lesson there! Now he is senior as God at a great airline. I ate a bunch of crow there...but I learned. Don't chase that "great job". I turned down an interview at NetJets for that very reason. I went to a job fair and stood in all the lines I wanted to and at the end I saw the NetJet table and figured "why not"? Well I was given an interview date and respectfully turned it down as at the time they had 2,600 pilots. I just couldn't imagine being 2,601 of 2,604. They'd have to buy 500 planes just so I could upgrade!

Anyway, I wanted a small little up and comming company that I could get in on the ground floor. I found EXACTLY what I was looking for at Avantair. They ran a plane that sipped gas and nobody had ever heard of them. I interviewed and liked what I saw. Then came what I didn't like...the training contract.

In the end I weighed that against all that I liked and decided to bite the bullet and do it. If I was pissed after 3 months and had to leave I would have sucked it up and honored the contract that signed. As it were, I liked this job more than any I've had so it was not a problem.

I make more money than I've ever made and I really enjoy the flying that I do. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's okay. I feel like I'm a part of the solutions to fix what needs fixing.

I understand why they have a training contract. I do not support it. But with all that's going on in the world I figure I can live with that. I'm happy and very glad I signed that stupid document that I didn't agree with. That was 5+ years ago. Moot point now...

I guess this job, for me, has been "hella-special".

Fly safe,

gp

 

[Paradoxus]

Well, when I got to Avantair they were exactly what I was looking for. A young company with a TON of potential. I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a company that was going to "explode". I knew a guy who was hired as number 40 at Jet Blue. At the time we all said, "JetWho?" and wished him luck at his little project. We sort of snickered at the time too.

Well, I learned a great lesson there! Now he is senior as God at a great airline. I ate a bunch of crow there...but I learned. Don't chase that "great job". I turned down an interview at NetJets for that very reason. I went to a job fair and stood in all the lines I wanted to and at the end I saw the NetJet table and figured "why not"? Well I was given an interview date and respectfully turned it down as at the time they had 2,600 pilots. I just couldn't imagine being 2,601 of 2,604. They'd have to buy 500 planes just so I could upgrade!

Anyway, I wanted a small little up and comming company that I could get in on the ground floor. I found EXACTLY what I was looking for at Avantair. They ran a plane that sipped gas and nobody had ever heard of them. I interviewed and liked what I saw. Then came what I didn't like...the training contract.

In the end I weighed that against all that I liked and decided to bite the bullet and do it. If I was pissed after 3 months and had to leave I would have sucked it up and honored the contract that signed. As it were, I liked this job more than any I've had so it was not a problem.

I make more money than I've ever made and I really enjoy the flying that I do. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's okay. I feel like I'm a part of the solutions to fix what needs fixing.

I understand why they have a training contract. I do not support it. But with all that's going on in the world I figure I can live with that. I'm happy and very glad I signed that stupid document that I didn't agree with. That was 5+ years ago. Moot point now...

I guess this job, for me, has been "hella-special".

Fly safe,

gp

Well, I certainly can't fault you. Then again, this was about a more generic failing by management universally, not an attack on a pilot group.