If you're thinking about Bankruptcy...

[Rekks Inbound]

DetoXJ,
Although I've never seen BK, I have several freinds who have. They were ALL responsible individuals, and lived within their means. I don't know where you live, but the example that started this thread is right on; and $200K for a house is CHEAP! Unless you live in a tar paper shack in a swamp somewhere. If you want something decent for your family, that about the minimum you are going to spend, so don't rip on someone for their 'irresponsible spending'. Most BK's are caused by medical debt; see what you cap is on your insurance, then call a couple of hospitals, you'll find that you will probably exceed your cap within 3 weeks, not an unusual amount of time for severe illness.

Speaking of debt and bankputcy, if this law applies to the Citizens of the USA, then why does it NOT apply to the person who signs off on the spending every year?! $450B and climbing! Feel sorry for your kids, if and when you have any, they and their kids will be paying this off for decades.

What a clusterF#$K!

Rekks

 

[Lear70]

My main point is that if you have positioned yourself financially where the loss of a job results in filing bankruptcy, then you are doing something very, very wrong.

It wasn't the loss of A job, it was the loss of TWO within the same year that did it.

Too many people overextend themselves and then look at bankruptcy as a way out. We ALL then have to collectively pick up the tab.

Explain to me how me filing Chapter 13 forces YOU to have to "pick up the tab", when all my debts WERE paid, just in a slower fashion? It DOESN'T raise interest rates; if that were true (I filed in 2001), interest rates would have gone UP, and we all know we have the lowest interest rates since the 1930's. You're barking up the wrong tree...

I would hazard a guess to say that you're in a less than 1% demographic of lending. 99% of the rest of us don't have the luxury of your situation (excess income to save a full YEAR of contingency funds, six-figure 401k, six-figure secondary income, perfect credit history and spending patterns). And all that as a Regional Airline pilot? Something stinks, maybe I should break out my hip waders...

 

[Peleton]

Listen....nothing changes the facts that half, 50 percent, of ALL personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. Most of those people had insurance that thought would cover the expenses. They did not pile up medical expenses getting nose jobs or face lifts..they had had bad luck sneek up on them and bite them in the butt. The were people involved in a car accident caused by an uninsured driver who they could not sue as they had no assets because the were an illegal fresh from the border driving a borrowed car. These were people whose kids had unexpected medial problems that they had no control of. These were people who could never have imagined that they would be ever be in this position.

For those people who believe that bankruptcies are caused by mismangement of funds and the stupidity of the personal involved, you are sorely under the influence of a corporate ideologly that has been proven untrue. This is just another way of seperating classes in society, Waren Buffet said it right when he said we are in the middle of class warfare in America and my side is winning.

Good luck to all, and to all the ones believing they are above this because they are smart enough to plan for this I wish you the most luck because the Karma bug will catch up with you sooner or later.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Anyone think credit card companies lobbying republicans $$$$$ had anything to do with this?? This is unfortunately how the system works. Only known one person to file bankruptcy and job loss was the reason. As mentioned before-hand, easily over half of all bankruptcies are due to health care costs. Some people abuse the system but everyone else will pay for the transgressions of those few.

Mr. I.

 

[FN FAL]

[/color]
Yup... it sucked for a lot of us. I was one of the lucky ones that was able to stay in aviation, a lot of others weren't as fortunate.


Have you ever purchased a new car? What happens after you drive it off the lot? That's riiiight, it depreciates several thousand dollars. If you tried to sell it six months later, you'd find that you couldn't get enough money to pay it off, it's called being "upside down" in your loan and happens until you've paid on a car for about 12 to 18 months in most cases.


That job on the side was food service working double shifts as a sous chef doing 14-16 hour days; it was the best I could find, no time for 2nd job. Wife's income, as I already stated, was just enough to cover her own car payment, insurance, and child care plus $200 a month for food and gas - no college degree. I had just upgraded from F/O to Capt and had 6 months of emergency funds saved up, 4 months were used going through training at Pinnacle with no pay during training (3 months of training then another month working before we saw a paycheck), the other 2 were used when I was furloughed from Pinnacle.


YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS TELLING ME THAT. I believe I made VERY sound decisions all the way through. I COULD have filed Chapter 7 and owed NOT A SINGLE, SOLITARY DIME and started over again MUCH more quickly. Instead I filed a 13 which DOES pay back the debts, just at a much slower rate. In case you haven't heard, the only dischargable debt in a 13 is unsecured (credit cards, etc), which I didn't have any of. Educate yourself and we'll talk more.


You know what's most amusing about this? I received about 4 PM's from people furloughed from Indy thanking me for the information and warning me that the self-righteous pr*cks would be out in force soon enough. Boy, were they right.

Did I have a contingency fund? Yup. Did I have another skill set to use? Yup. Was it enough to replace an $80,000 a year job? Nope. Glad you have that skill set, not everyone can be quite as "fortunate" as you, even with good planning, so point that self-righteous finger somewhere else buddy.

Damm...I hate hearing stories like yours. That is one of my biggest fears and it can happen at any of the airlines. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Another option, if you don't want to do bankruptcy or miss the dead line. Consumer Credit Counseling Service at www.cccs.net.

I highly recommend not doing this. Companies like Ameri Debt and Consurmer Credit Counseling Service can help you get better interest rates and lower payments, but at a price. When you use one of these companies and then try to get a Conventional, FHA, or VA loan, you will be treated the same as if you had filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy. Mortgage underwriting guidelines for traditional mortgages will consider your credit trashed, so don't do it. Real debt management help is found only in changing your behavior.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Two years from a Ch 7 discharge date, a person will qualify for an FHA-backed loan provided they are a first-time home buyer. Granted, the interest rate will be higher but it's possible. Generally speaking, if a person can raise their FICO score above 700, their interest rates will be lower and the chances of avoiding subprime lenders greatly increases.

Filing bankruptcy is a highly personal and difficult decision. It's done for many reasons, ethical or not. I'm not going to judge a person who's reached a point where there are no alternatives. IF they file and the debt is discharged, or repaid through Ch 13 proceedings, what matters is HOW they manage their finances after being given a second chance. Given the emotional rollercoaster experienced when deciding on and completing a bankruptcy, I'd venture to say that most people go through this process only once in their lifetime.

And, yes, I've known several people who filed bankruptcy and their lives weren't "ruined". At the time, they made the best of a bad situation and are doing well today.

HMM

 

[DetoXJ]

Lear70, thats exactally why you don't purchase a brand new truck. You buy one that is 6 months old in brand new condotion and you save thousands. Just another poor financial decision.

 

[Cracker]

Not that it may matter...

A lawyer friend told me these are the top three reasons for CH13. (CH7 usually falls under different circumstances)

1. Medical
2. Divorce
3. Job Loss

Look it up...those are the facts.

Arguing is about as pointless as arguing religion or politics...you probably ain't gonna' change anyone's mind.

But, hopefully this thread may help people raise the right questions if CH13 is becoming an option for them.

 

[Lear70]

Whatever makes you feel better Deto...

 

[AA717driver]

I was a couple months away from being in this situation last year. I lucked out and got a corporate job making 50% of my pay as a AA captain AND somehow we didn't qualify for financing when we tried to build our "captain's house" a few years ago when I was making big bucks and thought I had job security. Although it cause a lot of heartburn at the time, not qualifying for financing save us from serious financial trouble.

I know only a handful of people who were at TWA who were able to save up a year's pay for emergency purposes. You can't live in an apartment and drive a Yugo forever. Life goes on and you make the decision to give your family some of the same things your neighbors have (who, btw, sure as he!! aren't sitting on a year's pay either!) and take the chance that you will eventually make it up.

I used the year I had at "real" captain's pay at AA to pay off a lot of the accumulated debt so when I began my slide to the street, we were pretty well debt free. I WAS INCREDIBLY LUCKY. The numbers of people who are caught with debt and a 50% paycut or worse are huge in this business.

We have been forced to take huge pay cuts AND now we are not given the tools to salvage our finances. TC

 

[Mtnjam]

Other alternatives

For somebody who doesn't come from Money, they have to carve their own way through life and make things happen. For me Bankruptcy was a thought, but now I'm in the Debt Consolidation mode. I have two credit cards and a Phat Sallie Mae loan I have to pay off which was used for my flight rating's along with V.A. benefits, "I didn't waste money on Gulfstream".
I am recently divorced which makes it harder and I hung in there as a CFI to build the time in order to get my current job which I just finished training at "with no pay" and am still waiting for my first paycheck which I only hope is on the 16th of this month. I used Credit cards to help make ends meet, and don't live out of my means at ALL. I don't know why NEFLIER is so brutal about Bankruptcy. Alot of pilots have had hardship and I'm one of them. I don't own realestate and if anyone knows who will finance a first year FO with about 40k of Debt on a first year F.O. salary I would appreciate info. During training I saw lots of guys rolling up in their Lexus, Porche's and Nissan Extera's, who went out to eat every day. I don't care about them, don't know how they do it "but have an idea" Some folks aeren't fortunate enough to have somebody backing them and this seems to be a major issue in this line of work. Everyone looks at each other and says "how did you get here, what did you do before this." I worked hard, continue to work hard and plan to take responsibility for my debt but everyone on here seems to be so judgemental which is not their place. A 30k truck and 200k home is not too extravagent nowadays, granted cheaper vehicles can be purchased. Just my input though. If anyone has done or knows about debt consolidation loans I would appreciate info because I need to get one done soon because I am way behind on my bills and have tapped out my borrowing money resources from friends. There is no way I can afford to make all my bill payments on a monthly basis and I live a simple life. I am just happy to have a job at a Regional flying nice equipment. I hear many people complain about their Regional job and can't understand why. Lear 70 I don't understand why you were furloughed from Pinnacle. They are hiring 64 Pilots a month through August now and Upgrades are a continuous thing. Maybe you were let go years ago before the big growth spirt? Debt Consolidation info would be appreciated from anyone who knows anything, Thanx

 

[Lear70]

Debt consolidation without equity in a house at interest rates and terms that will save you any money are pretty hard to find. A "past-life" banker posted earlier, maybe he can help more.

I (along with about 90 other new-hires) were furloughed right after 9/11. It was a typical "knee-jerk" reaction by the company but it only took them four months or so to realize they couldn't staff the airline without those people and Northwest didn't want to park any of the CRJ's. Unfortunately they didn't let everyone know they'd be back so soon, we all received letters in the mail that said, "How soon can you be back to work?"

During that time period a LOT of guys went through some tough periods, especially guys (like me) who had only been on line for 15-30 days before 9/11.

 

[kingaira90]

I highly recommend not doing this. Companies like Ameri Debt and Consurmer Credit Counseling Service can help you get better interest rates and lower payments, but at a price. When you use one of these companies and then try to get a Conventional, FHA, or VA loan, you will be treated the same as if you had filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy. Mortgage underwriting guidelines for traditional mortgages will consider your credit trashed, so don't do it. Real debt management help is found only in changing your behavior.

we talked to a mortgage broker a couple of months before we finished the CCCS program. He said according to Fannie Mae guidelines (they basically set the guidelines for the rest of the industry), at a year out of credit counseling we become viable again for a conventional mortgage. Of course as long as we keep our credit clean in that year. -kingaira90

 

[kingaira90]

Debt consolidation without equity in a house at interest rates and terms that will save you any money are pretty hard to find. A "past-life" banker posted earlier, maybe he can help more.

Debt consolidation on student loans is easy and can save lots o money (atleast on payments). We did it and dropped our average rate by a point, and the rate is now fixed.

I agree on Debt consolidation on credit cards without equity in a house.

 

[labbats]

There should be a stipulation in the law that stops these credit card companies from setting up booths on college campuses and sending pre-approved cards to people with no credit history. It's hard to feel sorry for a predatory business IMO.

That said, I wholly agree with the law. If you can pay it off, you should.