If Tower told you this, what would you do?

[coloneldan]

Here's a good one. At an airport where I was once based, they closed the AFSS and opened a private tower. Not long afterward, I called for clearance to taxi from the hangar to the active. My route took me across the active then parallel to it. I was cleared to taxi to the runway. That means stop the first time you get to it, so I held short and waited. Ground proceded to chew me out for not taxiing to the end. It was a woman, so I knew better than to argue. A week later, same runway, same clearance. As I came to the hold lines, the guy in the tower asked if I was going to stop. After I sat there and waited for a while (no other airplane was in the area) he cleared me to taxi to the end, then chewed me out all the way to the end of the runway for not stopping.

 

[pilotviolin]

Had the tower guy/gal said, "Continue on to parking" or given you some other clearance limit, I would say that you would have been able to go to parking or the stated clearance limit.

The question is, what was the exact phraseology? "...exit A4 and continue on to Alpha"?

Maybe the tower guy had another aircraft coming up behind you and needed room to get the second plane clear of the runway for a third one landing.

Don't look to hard into this. I already stated what the exact conversation was. At I stated before no one was landing right behind us. Someone was cleared onto hold. (which is probably started this whole thing.) If you have been to CRQ, and want to look deeper into this, we freakin cleared at ALPHA 4. 95% of all jets coming in roll to the end. We cleared the runway about as fast as one can.

At CRQ, the hold short bars are next to Alpha, and there is no way you can clear and not be on Alpha. Maybe a BD5 could, but still I doubt it. To clear the runway you end up on Alpha. Like I said, we were told exactly "clear on A4, continue on ALPHA, contact ground 122.8."
Thanks for the replies.

 

[sleddriver71]

I would've done the same thing, because that is what you were instructed to do. Like you said, it was on the tapes and if you wanted to you could've just responded to ground, after they chewed you out, that you were doing what tower instructed AND that he/she could listen to the tape.

I use to fly into Redmond, OR (RDM) quite a bit and it was usually (always?) just one guy in the tower performing tower/ground/clearence duties. Generally, after I landed he would just say, "taxi to parking, moniter ground." For some reason (maybe he was training someone) one morning, as I rolled out from landing he told me to exit the runway and contact ground. I thought, "that's weird, I'm pretty sure he's the only one up there." So I did what he said and sure enough, it's him on ground, acted like he didn't know who I was. I was thinking, "remember me, I just talked to you a few times in the last couple of minutes." I proceeded to tell him my full callsign and where I was parking. Maybe he had a split personality that day. This was the same guy I had talked to for the last 2 or 3 years with the same freight company that flew in every day. I just thought that was a little weird.

 

[Fugawe]

After landing the tower told us to "exit A4 and continue on Alpha (the parallel taxiway), contact ground 122.8."

Now what would you do? I want to see some replies before I tell you the rest.​

'Continue on Alpha' or 'continue onto Alpha' -- neither is really a clnc to go wherever you want on Alpha from tower if gnd is controlling ground movement.

If he'd have added 'stay with tower until parked' perhaps you could've assumed then you had clnc to proceed on Alpha, but he didn't.

Sounds like he did have an attitude. You are on his turf, and he'll win the pissing contest.

Safest bet is to never assume. Just stop, or slow to a crawl, call ground,and get clnc to continue. You'll not be violated that way, and it'll only add a minute to your taxi.


Fugawe
-don't tug on Superman's cape
-don't spit into the wind
-don't argue with a controller with a 'tude

 

[urflyingme?!]

My $0.02
The tower gave him an instrction, aka A CLEARANCE!

If you change freq's with center do you stop in midair because they wren't the one that cleared you direct XYZ?

 

[Fugawe]

My $0.02
The tower gave him an instrction, aka A CLEARANCE!

If you change freq's with center do you stop in midair because they wren't the one that cleared you direct XYZ?

Apples and oranges.

Just like NORDO on the gnd is different than NORDO in the air, so are freq changes.

Instructions don't always imply a clearance to go further. You don't 'file' a flt plan for gnd movements, and there are no clearance limit fixes on the gnd (unless you get into SMGCS, low vis taxi ops, or London's fancy green ground lite system).

If you assume this to be true, at some pt you will face a violation sometime in your career..........or worse.

Never assume, always ask, this ain't combat ops.


Fugawe
--there are no old-bold pilots............................

 

[Ralgha]

4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing​

The following procedures should be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.​

a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.​

b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. In the absence of ATC instructions the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by clearing the hold position marking associated with the landing runway even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. This does not authorize an aircraft to cross a subsequent taxiway/runway/ramp after clearing the landing runway.​

NOTE-
1. The tower will issue the pilot instructions which will normally permit the aircraft to enter another taxiway, runway, or ramp area when required to taxi clear of the runway by clearing the hold position marking associated with the landing runway.

2. Guidance contained in subparagraphs a and b above is considered an integral part of the landing clearance and satisfies the requirement of 14 CFR Section 91.129.​

c. Stop the aircraft after clearing the runway if instructions have not been received from ATC.​

d. Immediately change to ground control frequency when advised by the tower and obtain a taxi clearance.​

NOTE-
1. The tower will issue instructions required to resolve any potential conflictions with other ground traffic prior to advising the pilot to contact ground control.​

2. A clearance from ATC to taxi to the ramp authorizes the aircraft to cross all runways and taxiway intersections. Pilots not familiar with the taxi route should request specific taxi instructions from ATC.​

 

[FN FAL]

Don't look to hard into this. I already stated what the exact conversation was.

A conversation is not the same as a taxi clearance.

 

[Ralgha]

A conversation is not the same as a taxi clearance.

Yes but a taxi clearance is part of a conversation.

 

[lowtimedriver]

Kind of weird that ground would chew you out over this. CRQ is my home field and the tower frequently clears you to taxi to the ramp, FBO, or what ever. Both of the female ATCer's at CRQ are also going for the PPL's. Maybe they were having a rough day.

 

[pilotviolin]

A conversation is not the same as a taxi clearance.

Probably the dumbest thing you have said on FI. How the heck to you get any kind of clearance, ESP?

 

[Metro752]

Where I fly Ground through Approach is usually ONE person.

 

[Lucky13]

Taxi as instructed by tower. Tell ground your are doing so per towers instructions. If he/she give you lip tell them to take it with the tower and not to take it out on you. If ground continues verbal banter or abuse request there operating initals and the number for the supervisor. Call supervisor, give time, date, initals and ask what the problem was and when he will call you back with answer. Be sure to let them know that the actions of the controllers confused you and that you felt it was a safety concern inadditoin to being unprofessional. You will never have a problem again. Don't let some jerk controller treat you like crap. Do your best, be polite and you should recive the same. If not....find out why.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Taxi as instructed by tower. Tell ground your are doing so per towers instructions. If he/she give you lip tell them to take it with the tower and not to take it out on you. If ground continues verbal banter or abuse request there operating initals and the number for the supervisor. Call supervisor, give time, date, initals and ask what the problem was and when he will call you back with answer. Be sure to let them know that the actions of the controllers confused you and that you felt it was a safety concern inadditoin to being unprofessional. You will never have a problem again. Don't let some jerk controller treat you like crap. Do your best, be polite and you should recive the same. If not....find out why.

I LIKE it

 

[Fugawe]

Taxi as instructed by tower. Tell ground your are doing so per towers instructions. If he/she give you lip tell them to take it with the tower and not to take it out on you. If ground continues verbal banter or abuse request there operating initals and the number for the supervisor. Call supervisor, give time, date, initals and ask what the problem was and when he will call you back with answer. Be sure to let them know that the actions of the controllers confused you and that you felt it was a safety concern inadditoin to being unprofessional. You will never have a problem again. Don't let some jerk controller treat you like crap. Do your best, be polite and you should recive the same. If not....find out why.

Ummm, sure. Try this technique at ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, JFK, LGA, LHR, DEN, ORY, or any other major airport.

Pissing contests do not work. They don't have time for childish antics at major airports.

There are jerk controllers, but pilots that argue with them over the radio are idiots too -- just trying to prove their point. This ties up radio time, and slows everyone else down. Unprofessional.

It's simple. Never assume. Get taxi clnc from whomever owns the turf you need to operate on. If you can't contact them, stop the jet -- they WILL contact you if you sit long enough.

If you try to throw your weight around YOU are the safety problem -- not the controller.

Relax, wind the clock, sip your soda, get appropriate clearances. Be 'Iceman' on the radio -- not some shrill, whiney, demanding pilot with an ego problem.

Why waste heartbeats over this mundance stuff? Save it for engine-out work, or approaches to mins......................


Fugawe