If everyone else can do it, why can't ASA?

[legalalien]

FlyAuburn,

Where do you get the requirement for 10hours of rest following duty over 15 hours as an absolute?

At ASA we have have 12.D.2.d saying that if we get reduced rest of less than 9 hours we cannot be scheduled for more than 10 hours the next day. Is that what you are referring to?

LegalAlien

 

[FlyAuburn]

You're absolutely correct. What they don't tell you is that FAR 121.471(c) translates to my point of 10 hours compensatory rest after a 15 hour day. Do you remember the 24 hour look back? Anytime you complete a flight, you have to ask yourself if you've had normal rest (9hours) in the last 24 hours. Normally the answer is yes. But, when you go over 15 hour duty day, the answer is no. You've had less than nine. Meaning, you had reduced rest in the last 24 hours, which means you have to have compensatory rest (10 hours). Remember the Whitlow letter? I don't have it in front of me, but I do know that it is about all this.

This is a very confusing subject, much more when there's a moron like me trying to explain it. Call Scheduling Hotline, he'll be glad to help you. The thing is that it does not say anywhere - "15 hour day = 10 hour rest". Unfortunately, we have to do the math. If I'm wrong on this, feel free to correct me.

 

[legalalien]

I see what you are referring to now. So we have to combine the two at ASA.

If you are on duty over 15 hours at ASA not only can they only schedule you for only 10 hours of duty the next day (by the contract) but your rest following that 10 hours or less of duty has to be at least 10 hours (by FAR121.471.c.1)

I guess I will have to factor that into my bidding and look for three days that have a lot of flying on the first and second day

 

[FlyAuburn]

I'm not quite sure we're on the same page. 15 hour duty day means that you have to have 10 hours of compensatory rest that night, nothing less.
The contract comments on the fact that if you ever receive reduce rest (less than 9 hours), you can't be on duty the next day for more than 10 hours. These are two different "topics". More than likely, scheduling will always give you those 9 hours so that you're good to go all day the next day. Makes sense?

 

[legalalien]

Sorry,

I reread what I wrote and it wasn't written very well (Kind of like our contract!!).

I agree completely with what you have written. If you are on duty over 15 hours you must have 10 hours rest by the FAR's.
Also if you ever have reduced rest of less than 9 hours you must have no more than 10 hours of duty scheduled the next day by the contract. You are correct that scheduling usually gives 9 hours of rest - guys should also remember that the departure time should be adjusted to 45 minutes after you duty in. They play that game as well.

 

[FlyAuburn]

I'm glad you got it. Please spread the word around. Not many people know about this little secret. This is another great tool to send a message for a new contract.

 

[Tomct]

FlyAuburn, thanks for clearing that up! Some of those things are written so tricky, they Jack me UP! I'll definately spread the word! Fly safe guys!

 

[79%N1]

Regardint the 10 hour duty limit following a reduced rest overnight, just last week, after an 8 hr 15 min rest, scheduling tries to extend us on day 4 of our trip. The extension would take us to 14 1/2 hour day. I call scheduling to tell them this violates our contract. After being put on hold for 10 min. the scheduler picks up an claim...."You're good to go, the 10 hour duty IS NOT F.A.R!!!!! Freakin hilarious! So, I ask....then my contract is a worthless piece of crap??? Then the sched. supervisor get on the line and says they have authority to bypass this rule!!! HA! So, a trip to the Chief pilot follows, where we say we will stick to the contract, and we are fatigued from 2 long days and reduced rest.

UNBELIEVABLE!

 

[FlyAuburn]

That is crazy. Good job for sticking through it. By chance, did you get a confirmation number when they tried to extend you? Same thing happened to me a few years ago, except I didn't fly a single minute of the extension and got paid for all 3.5 hours of it (150%). The chief pilot asked me why not do it since it was good money. I told him I had a conf. number. He smiled and said "cya later".
When they try to extend me, I always ask for the number, then "talk business". I then check every detail about the trip. More than likely it will be illegal. They're morons up there. Most of them.

 

[Plug]

Regardint the 10 hour duty limit following a reduced rest overnight, just last week, after an 8 hr 15 min rest, scheduling tries to extend us on day 4 of our trip. The extension would take us to 14 1/2 hour day. I call scheduling to tell them this violates our contract. After being put on hold for 10 min. the scheduler picks up an claim...."You're good to go, the 10 hour duty IS NOT F.A.R!!!!! Freakin hilarious! So, I ask....then my contract is a worthless piece of crap??? Then the sched. supervisor get on the line and says they have authority to bypass this rule!!! HA! So, a trip to the Chief pilot follows, where we say we will stick to the contract, and we are fatigued from 2 long days and reduced rest.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Had this samething happen to me yesterday after flying a 3 day in the right seat. We had reduced rest in XNA followed by an 8:55 duty day. Got back from MLU and they said they had a VLD round trip. I told the scheduler that I was limited to 10 hours of duty because of the RR in XNA. He put me on hold for 5 minutes and came back with "your released and see you back on reserve friday at noon." See Ya!!!

Cheers