If Delta had asked this, woudl the pilot have accepted?

[B6Driver]

I take full credit for all my choices at JetBlue And what anybody made 4+ years ago, well, need I even answer that?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

B6 should take credit for the demise of Eastern and possibly Pan Am.

 

[Dizel8]

jB gus are just as culpable as anybody else in this trend, despite their protestations to the contrary.
FJ

Absolutely, but the emphasis should be "as culpable as everyone else". A small company, now and at the time, cannot be expected nor accused of dictating the terms of say the U or the UAL contract, just like Airtran is not the reason why DAL is where they are currently at.

History has recorded plenty of pilots willingly acepting lower pay, in the expectance of greater rewards. Today, people are tripping all over themselves trying to get on with SWA, a change that has happened only recently. Same could be said for those now joining FDX and UPS, only a few years back, they saw people leaving for the pax carriers.

What is the problem, what is the solution? Heck if I know, but if it involves me giving up my job and my stability at jetblue, because someone thinks I should take a fall for the "profession" and choke the golden goose for all its eggs, then sorry no, that will not happen.

 

[pilotyip]

Funny we never seem to blame the flying public and their economic choices, the Internet revolution that provides instant access to everyone fares, and the obsolete model of living off of first class fares. Instead we blame management, other people, and inability of the unions to stop the change in air travel. The New World is here, it is unstoppable and $125-$150 a year for flying pax is still a good job. Jet Blue is a good job; a good company and pilots from the BK legacy are applying at Jet Blue in large numbers. I meet them at the Air Inc job fair in ATL last weekend and them were in the Jetblue line.

 

[B777]

When I first wrote this thread, my intentions were not to bash B6 and its pilots or any other company for that matter. I was simply presenting my opinion that the Song product is better than the Jetblue product. I was strictly talking products. It does not do the whole pilot community any good to blame B6 for DAL' woes. It's time to stick together and not be divided. Before Jetblue, there was Valujet in ATL which became Airtran. I remember when they first started they were selling tickets for $29 one way! And also before Jetblue is Spirit Airlines. And even before all of these there was and still is Southwest. What started all of this is deregulation, which is exatly why it was enacted, to bring competetion.

As another pilot had mentioned, the days of earning $300K and having a pension are gone, it's time to think about your 401K. However you do have to draw a line somewhere. And to me, I find something wrong with the idea of a captain flying 767 overseas making the same amount as flying a 737 domestically or a 717.

Going back to my original thread, what are your suggestion on what DAL can do in order to compete against B6, FL, NK, WN and yet still pay the pilots what they earn today?

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Here are the numbers if everyone is still interested. It's hard to tell what you will actually make though because I'm sure the lines are built over 70 hours.


A320CA EMBCA A320FO EMBFO
1st 110 71 51 37
2nd 113 72 56 40
3rd 116 74 61 42
4th 118 76 67 44
5th 121 77 72 46
6th 123 79 73 47
7th 126 80 74 48
8th 128 82 74 49
9th 131 84 75 49
10th 133 85 76 51
11th 136 87 76 52
12th 139 89 76 53


Each hour above 70/mo paid at 150%

 

[smellthejeta]

Funny we never seem to blame the flying public and their economic choices, the Internet revolution that provides instant access to everyone fares, and the obsolete model of living off of first class fares. Instead we blame management, other people, and inability of the unions to stop the change in air travel. The New World is here, it is unstoppable and $125-$150 a year for flying pax is still a good job. Jet Blue is a good job; a good company and pilots from the BK legacy are applying at Jet Blue in large numbers. I meet them at the Air Inc job fair in ATL last weekend and them were in the Jetblue line.

Speaking as part of the flying public...

My trips are leisure. That means I go if I feel like it. The cheaper the fares are, the more often I fly. So am I to be blamed because I can go to expedia and see a side by side listing of all of the fares and flight times, and then pick which one best suits my perferences? Truth is, leisure travel has a price point. You either deliver the product at a price the consumer is willing to pay, or your product won't sell. Yer right about the good jobs at $100k+. Anybody who can make that kind of money is still in a position to live the good life.

 

[Falconjet]

There have been all kinds of posts about blaming the customers (at least partially) for the woes of the industry. Riddle me this though. Everybody seems to feel like the market is so price sensitive that people will stop flying if the prices are raised. So Delta, United, NW and AA keep lowering their fares and they still are losing money.

When are some of these folks going to have the balls to actually raise fares and give it a shot? What do they have to lose? More money, almost impossible to imagine, but what the hey. The employees have given back about 50% of their wages, and the cost of gas continues to soar, and the managers shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do except cut wages more.

How about raising the fares? As a customer I don't want to pay more but you know what, if I need to fly somewhere I will pay what it costs. If I were so price sensitive I would simply drive. Raising fares might not work, but then again it doesn't seem anybody has tried, might as well give it a shot.

I guess that is too complex and idea for the rocket scientists running the legacy carriers these days.

FJ

 

[pilotyip]

Falconjet again you miss the point. NWA tried raising fares, ridership took an instand dive, then NWA dropped the fare increase them because no one matched them. Now if everyone gets together and raises the fares, ridership nationwide will drop and there will be fewer pilot jobs. Low end fare people fly because it is cheaper than driving. If fares goes up the marginal customer drives or does not take the trip.

 

[Dizel8]

If I were so price sensitive I would simply drive.
FJ

Several posters have shown that to be the more expensive option, not only in time but cost as well.