If Delta dies, Skywest = ?

[satpak77]

What happens to Skywest if Delta shuts down temporarily (strike) or all together?

Do they have enough other revenue streams to keep them alive or are they are risk, being a regional for two companies, both Ch.11?

 

[General Lee]

I would guess a Chap 11. Over half of their flying is associated with Delta, and they have too many 50 seat RJs and no mainline sized jets. There wouldn't be enough time to buy new equipment and train enough people to make a difference. LCCs like Southwest and Airtran would move in and offer service to replace DL (Southwest is getting 47 737-700s in 2006 and Airtran is probably getting a few too). Sad but true. Sure, demand would be there, but so would the LCCs. I don't see an RJ operator (what SkyWest is) filling in any gaps. People don't like RJs. Look at Indy. Let's hope we don't strike.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SSDD]

As much as the thought of Skywest filing Chap 11 excites the General, I think it depends on the length of the strike. If the strike were less than a month or so, Skywest would continue to operate their UA flights, plus limited DL flights that they operate right now. NOT mainline flights, just the stuff they're doing right now.

If DL goes out of business altogether, then that would be a tougher choice, but don't think the wheels are not turning in SGU right now.

 

[satpak77]

ok thanks for the posts guys

 

[General Lee]

As much as the thought of Skywest filing Chap 11 excites the General, I think it depends on the length of the strike. If the strike were less than a month or so, Skywest would continue to operate their UA flights, plus limited DL flights that they operate right now. NOT mainline flights, just the stuff they're doing right now.

If DL goes out of business altogether, then that would be a tougher choice, but don't think the wheels are not turning in SGU right now.

Wow, that really would excite me! NOT. I guess that would mean I would lose my job too in the process. I can't wait for that. But, there are some things that NEED to be worked out, and that is what negotiations are for. No GRAB BAG. The pilots that "remembered the old Delta days" are now GONE. We are a younger group with more options. Hopefully things will work out, but if they don't, everyone will be hurting. I hope it doesn't get to that point, but it might.


And SSDD, I love the part about your SkyWest flights still operating their current DCI flights. To feed what? How many people want to go from SLC to Great Falls? That is ridiculous. Most of those connections go onto CVG, ATL or Hawaii. You might fill St George to SLC, but that is about it. Have fun with that. And, I bet the wheels are turning in St George, asking why they added more exposure to DL by purchasing ASA. It would take years to cover any mainline flying that went away, unless you already had mainline planes, and Southwest does. (47 new 737-700s next year alone) The big losers would be the small communities that never get service again, especially from any LCC. Let's hope the talks resume soon..... Stay tuned.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

DAL DOA, SkyWest=?

I believe they have enough with UAL to at least save themselves. ASA would probably sink. But, I doubt they would have bought ASA knowing DAL would sink. I imagine that Grinchstien and his boyz assured SKYW that DAL would squeeze DALPA and would come out ok. Jerry Atkin is no dummy, he has a lot riding on SKYW.

 

[General Lee]

I believe they have enough with UAL to at least save themselves. ASA would probably sink. But, I doubt they would have bought ASA knowing DAL would sink. I imagine that Grinchstien and his boyz assured SKYW that DAL would squeeze DALPA and would come out ok. Jerry Atkin is no dummy, he has a lot riding on SKYW.

Well, without the ASA side, SkyWest still has plenty of E120s and 50 seat RJs on the Delta side. None of those would likely go to any other airline, since they aren't really in demand. So, you would expect all of those to be parked. United wouldn't add money to their SkyWest agreement, so SkyWest would have to live with their current agreement. Any money lost parking those planes (that was guaranteed profit---fee for departure) wouldn't help with purchasing new larger airplanes to compete. Not a pretty picture.(for SkyWest, ASA, Comair, CHQ or Mesa---and also all of the mainline people) Let's hope Delta and Dalpa agree to negotiate fairly. This is NOT a slam dunk for Delta management.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

DAL DOA, SkyWest=?

General,

I don't know for sure, but I would assume (never assume) that the Brakillya's (E-120) are paid for. Having them sit would not do any more harm than when ASA (DAL owned) parked their E120's. UAL agreement? well, I really don't know. I would hope it could keep SKYW afloat.

As far as DALPA, I want them to come through as much as you. I work at ASA and my job would be gone as well as yours.

I'm not professing to be an aviation expert, but DAL and SKYW would have deffinately done their homework on the issues at present (prior to the sale of ASA). This did not happen over night, so neither was not blind to what is happening now. They both knew what issues were in the future for each other.

What I was trying to convey was that Jerry Atkin has a lot invested in a company started by his family. Grinchstien has nothing invested and probably doesn't give a rat's butt if DAL sinks or swims. Jerry Atkin will do what needs to be done to save "his" company.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I don't know for sure, but I would assume (never assume) that the Brakillya's (E-120) are paid for. Having them sit would not do any more harm than when ASA (DAL owned) parked their E120's. UAL agreement? well, I really don't know. I would hope it could keep SKYW afloat.

As far as DALPA, I want them to come through as much as you. I work at ASA and my job would be gone as well as yours.

I'm not professing to be an aviation expert, but DAL and SKYW would have deffinately done their homework on the issues at present (prior to the sale of ASA). This did not happen over night, so neither was not blind to what is happening now. They both knew what issues were in the future for each other.

What I was trying to convey was that Jerry Atkin has a lot invested in a company started by his family. Grinchstien has nothing invested and probably doesn't give a rat's butt if DAL sinks or swims. Jerry Atkin will do what needs to be done to save "his" company.

I agree with you. But, at the last road show our management guys said they were "surprised" at our reaction to all of this. They couldn't believe we wouldn't want to go along with their plans. Maybe they thought this when they talked to Atkin about buying ASA. We will see, but this isn't turning out the way they planned so far IMO. There are things we will NOT give up. Dalpa and Delta will have to negotiate and get this figured out. We have lost most of our super senior pilots (2300 in a little more than 1 year) that would have backed the company on anything, just because of loyalty. The rest of us were wildcards, and now we only have 300 or so older than 55 left. There could be a miscalulation in there. Again, let's hope they figure this out.

Bye Bye-General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

DAL Vs. DALPA

General,

Of course they were surprised by the Pilot group's response. They (DAL Mgt) thought you would roll over. Instead, the Pilots dug in and threatened a strike that might mean the downfall of DAL.

Even if Grinchstien and his VP boyz are secure, they will find a lot of DAL employees and ATL Govt officials asking why there are so many unemployed people. He (Grinchstien) and his Possee (sp) might find it very tough leaving town w/o a possible lynching... (obviously joking on the lynching)

 

[General Lee]

General,

Of course they were surprised by the Pilot group's response. They (DAL Mgt) thought you would roll over. Instead, the Pilots dug in and threatened a strike that might mean the downfall of DAL.

Even if Grinchstien and his VP boyz are secure, they will find a lot of DAL employees and ATL Govt officials asking why there are so many unemployed people. He (Grinchstien) and his Possee (sp) might find it very tough leaving town w/o a possible lynching... (obviously joking on the lynching)

Again, you are correct. A lot of government people (State and City) are probably calling him daily. The creditors also want to stay informed I am sure. And, all this around Xmas. So, hopefully they will get back to the table and actually find out what the company NEEDS, vs WANTS. Stay tuned.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

:erm: Not to be a smarta$$, but I forgot about the shareholders. They will deffinately come after Grinchstien and his Boyz. ATL is DAL largest destination and the busiest airport in the nation (if not the world). The passengers that cannot get to their holiday destinations will be second in line to get them as well.

Hold tight, this is going to get rough......

 

[SSDD]

General,

As usual, you're only interested in your own opinion. You ignored the fact that I said that it depends on the length of the strike. You ignored that I said LIMITED service. I know there's LIMITED O&D traffic in and out of SLC. The same is true with ATL, not everyone connects. So in the SHORT TERM, it is possible to have LIMITED operations.

Unlike you who needs a "boogey man"(LCC's, Comair, JetBlue, Airtran, and most recently Skywest)to justify your situation in life, I don't have any ill will towards any other group. We are all in this industry together. Anything that a pilot group does affects the whole industry.

Good luck

 

[viper548]

The bottom line is SkyWest will fly what Delta tells them to fly. If Delta wants SkyWest to fly around empty RJ's they will

 

[General Lee]

General,

As usual, you're only interested in your own opinion. You ignored the fact that I said that it depends on the length of the strike. You ignored that I said LIMITED service. I know there's LIMITED O&D traffic in and out of SLC. The same is true with ATL, not everyone connects. So in the SHORT TERM, it is possible to have LIMITED operations.

Unlike you who needs a "boogey man"(LCC's, Comair, JetBlue, Airtran, and most recently Skywest)to justify your situation in life, I don't have any ill will towards any other group. We are all in this industry together. Anything that a pilot group does affects the whole industry.

Good luck

As usual, you think I am only against SkyWest. I don't hate any one group of pilots. I know we are all in this together, and I have stated in each of my posts that I hope this is all resolved soon. Even a limited strike would devistate Delta, and everyone should know that. That may be also true for the feeders, since they rely on "pure profit" from the mainline. (Ask Ron Reber if he is "insulated" from a Delta strike.....) I don't need a boogey man to justify my life, I just want some sort of security and a path I can follow. A Chap 11 grab bag doesn't allow that. I would like nothing more than to get this behind us and go forward, and then just go back to leisurely debating the masses on this board. Until then, I think everyone needs to know what may or may not happen coming up here shortly. This is serious.

And with ASA being ALPA, would they fly any of our flights during a possible strike? I doubt that. (SkyWest couldn't change that---we didn't cover any Comair flights during their strike)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[utahpilot]

Over half of their flying is associated with Delta, and they have too many 50 seat RJs and no mainline sized jets.
Bye Bye--General Lee

are you sure? only if you're talking SkyWest INC.

from SkyWest.com

Average number of daily scheduled departures-SkyWest Airlines

United: 1,062 Delta: 472 Total: 1,534

 

[General Lee]

are you sure? only if you're talking SkyWest INC.

from SkyWest.com

Average number of daily scheduled departures-SkyWest Airlines

United: 1,062 Delta: 472 Total: 1,534

Does that now include ASA? Didn't think so, and now you have twice the exposure to Delta. Before you bought ASA I would have believed those numbers, but not now. Good try. Owning ASA has now become a large liability for SkyWest. And, their pilots are ALPA, so probably no flying during a possible DL strike. I hope it doesn't happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[blackbox]

And, I bet the wheels are turning in St George, asking why they added more exposure to DL by purchasing ASA.



Bye Bye--General Lee

I dont think they expected this from the DAL pilot group. When United filed for BK, skywest grew like gangbusters. I'm sure they expected to same with Delta when they filed. it was a gamble they took hopig it would pay off from past experiece.

 

[Mookie]

Genral,

When is your Md-88 upgrade class? You must be really hitting the books getting ready.

good luck,
Mookie

 

[General Lee]

Genral,

When is your Md-88 upgrade class? You must be really hitting the books getting ready.

good luck,
Mookie

I put that on hold(waiting for the next bid, if there is one), just like you should for your CR7 transition. Good luck to you too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

["GO AROUND"]

are you sure? only if you're talking SkyWest INC.

from SkyWest.com

Average number of daily scheduled departures-SkyWest Airlines

United: 1,062 Delta: 472 Total: 1,534

The numbers I saw for ASA on delta.com was over 900 daily departures. So UAL=1062 DAL=1372 if you combine them.

 

[N2264J]

And, their pilots are ALPA, so probably no flying during a possible DL strike.

Delta continued to fly during the Comair strike.

Why do you think ASA will stop flying during a Delta strike just because they're ALPA?

I don't think the NMB has released them yet. Will the ASA pilots walk with the mainline pilots in a sympathy strike? Since they're not striking the same company anymore, would that count as the same class and craft?

I seriously doubt ALPA will allow the Delta pilots to strike anyway. It would kill one of their biggest dues cash cows and ALPA simply can not allow that to happen.

 

[blueridge71]

Would DALPA strike with us? I doubt it. We probably wouldn't have a sympathy strike, but we may have a strike of own that runs concurrently. Our MEC just passed a note confidence in management resolution and authorized a strike committee.

If DAL went ch. 7, there would be a lot of capacity in ASA airplanes and gates available in ATL for someone. I'm not sure that we would be idle for long. Airtran might make a deal in the absence of their largest competitor. ASA might even fly under their own colors. Who knows?

Having said that, I'd really like to see DAL and DALPA work things out. It would be better for everyone.

 

[General Lee]

Delta continued to fly during the Comair strike.

Why do you think ASA will stop flying during a Delta strike just because they're ALPA?

I don't think the NMB has released them yet. Will the ASA pilots walk with the mainline pilots in a sympathy strike? Since they're not striking the same company anymore, would that count as the same class and craft?

I seriously doubt ALPA will allow the Delta pilots to strike anyway. It would kill one of their biggest dues cash cows and ALPA simply can not allow that to happen.

What I said was that Delta didn't cover any of Comair's flying. (on another post) That is what I meant.

And, good ole Duane Worthless was at our very large, successful rally, so you never know.........He probably wants to see us (at least one of us) to stand up and stop the downward spiral. We are a different group now, now that 2300 loyalists retired within the last year. I hope they negotiate something fair before then, though. High stakes poker.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

Would DALPA strike with us? I doubt it. We probably wouldn't have a sympathy strike, but we may have a strike of own that runs concurrently. Our MEC just passed a note confidence in management resolution and authorized a strike committee.

If DAL went ch. 7, there would be a lot of capacity in ASA airplanes and gates available in ATL for someone. I'm not sure that we would be idle for long. Airtran might make a deal in the absence of their largest competitor. ASA might even fly under their own colors. Who knows?

Having said that, I'd really like to see DAL and DALPA work things out. It would be better for everyone.

Blueridge71,

If Big D goes "Strike" we don't fly "Struck" work. That is how you support your fellow airline pilot and keeps you off "Scab" list. Besides it lets MGT know that there is no option other than sit and negotiate.

 

[CFIT]

As said before the General gets wood just thinking of problems for SkyWest. However, management has stategies in place for the demise of either of it's code shares that are discussed at almost every investers conference. I wont go into specifics but the structure is there in the event of a collapse of either Delta or United, it wont be painless but certainly not lethal.

 

[ASADriver]

Blueridge71,

If Big D goes "Strike" we don't fly "Struck" work. That is how you support your fellow airline pilot and keeps you off "Scab" list. Besides it lets MGT know that there is no option other than sit and negotiate.

CMR went on strike and DAL didn't stop flying. Why should we stop flying if Delta goes on strike? Rember, they said we are separate. They said there wasn't operational integration. They made their bed, now they can sleep in it.

As for the "scab list", don't you find it just a tad ironic that it was an Eastern scab who posted the three ASA MEC resolutions, regarding the strike vote and no confidence vote, on the ALPA board? He is an ALPA committee chairman and he crossed a real line. How about the CAL MEC Chairman, he is an Eastern scab also. Save me the ALPA BS - I have had my fill!

I will fly any aircraft that is operated by ASA during any DAL strike - we a separate and they don't give a darn about me.

 

[blueridge71]

Blueridge71,

If Big D goes "Strike" we don't fly "Struck" work. That is how you support your fellow airline pilot and keeps you off "Scab" list. Besides it lets MGT know that there is no option other than sit and negotiate.

That's true in theory. In reality, Delta's schedule changes almost from day to day and their routes are layered with different companies flying the same routes. How would we know what is struck work?

Also, I wasn't here then, but I've heard that ASA operated Comair airplanes on Comair routes during that strike. I don't know if it's true, but that has been going around.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Blueridge:

ASA took delivery of a couple of RJ's while Comair was out. You can tell these airplanes because of the different materials used in the entry flooring and other small details that Comair ordered different from ASA. When Comair came back to work and had their growth spurt they took several of the airplanes in line for ASA.

ASA did not pick up any flying from Comair during their strike. Management never asked us to and we made it clear that we were not going to fly Comair's struck work.

 

[ASADriver]

Blueridge:

ASA did not pick up any flying from Comair during their strike. Management never asked us to and we made it clear that we were not going to fly Comair's struck work.

Fins, I know you are smarter than that. ASA, DAL, and ACA flew CMR passengers during the strike. Example, a "CMR" passenger in CAK was supposed to fly from CAK to CVG to SAT. CMR strikes, and the passenger is routed from CAK to ATL to SAT, possibly on a CMR aircraft. We flew CMR passengers in CMR aircraft. We just didn't fly them on the same city pairs - ie we just didn't fly them through CVG. Management won that strike, and I am really not sure why we think we can win one.