Ideal AWA/USAir Seniority Integration

[AAslag]

Yes that is all you can say about OZ/TWA, there seems to be enough information from the OZ guys why DOH for them was not good, and if it had been that great for the OZ guys, do you think TWA would have left it the same way.

AA

No, I can say a lot about the 86' merger. What do you want to know?
Since you have inside information, please..... explain to me how horrible it was for them.

Yes, there were fences. A few lost CA seats. A few had to fly as FE.
They eventually dominated the training center and the check airman ranks. Two became chief pilots, several more assistant chief pilots. They flew in every seat of every aircraft that TWA had.

The last 747 flight was commanded by an OZ pilot.

They all kept their jobs, and today everyone left is able to fly CA on the small widebodies or the MD-80.

I have established many friendships with OZ pilots, however, a small minority continues to spread disinformation and lies.

I was informed by a sim instructor (former OZ) how lucky I was that I didnt get stapled like he did. I suppose he expected some kind of super-seniority. His 79' hire status should have somehow propelled him past the pilots hired in the 60's. He is certainly senior to the TWA pilots hired in 85, 86, 88 and beyond. I wish I had been stapled like he was.

So please tell me AA..... what am I missing? Tell me about the lost live and hardships.

Your last statement is baffling. Please explain.

 

[AAflyer]

Not sure what is baffling about it, but yes I have heard both sides, and will put out some information I have when I have the authors permission. I am sure with what is going on with the AUP, and C & R, you can understand my reluctance to repost anything at this time.

But for starters, regardless of DOH seniority, 16% of the OZ pilots were furloughed just prior to the TW/OZ merger date ( Against ALL ALPA "Scope Rules, including TWA's..) TWA with 3 weeks notice removed the Ozark MD80's from the OZ ops cert and transferred them to the TWA ops cert. creating an overage of the OZ CA/FO's and thus OZ furloughs.

As for the other comment, it is truly amazing how there is ALWAYS a different feeling as to what is fair and not fair. You haven't figured that out yet.

AA

 

[AAslag]

As for the other comment, it is truly amazing how there is ALWAYS a different feeling as to what is fair and not fair. You haven't figured that out yet.

Where in my post do I mention anything about fair or unfair? Everything I wrote is simply a statement of fact.

Look AA, I don't want your job, have no personal animosity towards you, and I never expected to fly the 777. I know that without the 9/11 attacks I would most likely still be flying Captain in St. Louis and I have already been furloughed longer than any of the 16% you mentioned.

I was hired in 88. I had nothing to do with the merger. I am not defending TWA or condeming OZ. I simply do not understand how such a small minority can continue to garner so much underserved sympathy.

If you are going to re-post a buch of Numbers Bob crap save your time.
He is self serving and has no credibility.

 

[AAflyer]

I am sorry for your furlough. I did not mean to sound "all knowing", just from what I have read and heard.

I can't say if it wouldn't have been fair if you could have flown the 777, not really sure as to what would have been best, but you did deserve a lot better, and while I usually get looks from my collegues you guys should have been treated a lot better.

I have flown recently with some guys that are now getting bumped to FO, and I know others that are now unemployed.

I guess what I meant to say was every person has a different feeling as to fair and equitable and to see the pilots at US/AWA already making comments as to what they feel they deserve makes me worried there will be another bunch harmed pilots.

We are truly all pawns in the game, and many like yourself and I had no ability to alter the events that happened. I would like to say that all TWA pilots I have flown with have been nothing but quality people, and pilots.

AA

 

[Swaayze]

Goody! I might be considered for a preferential interview at the airline I worked for and have recall rights to still. You guys are very generous. And I'm sure the '88 hires that are furloughed will be very appreciative of this too - given that some of you are AWA pilots who began primary flight training after their DOH at the "surviving" company (another thread for those who want to beat this horse).

And you guys wonder why GoJets finds qualified pilots!


Don't worry, no U furloughee will bump an AWA pilot to the street. We'll all be (at best) on the bottom of the list. I have no doubt about this.


Godspeed to all involved.

 

[NAA Pilot]

Not sure what is baffling about it, but yes I have heard both sides, and will put out some information I have when I have the authors permission. I am sure with what is going on with the AUP, and C & R, you can understand my reluctance to repost anything at this time.

But for starters, regardless of DOH seniority, 16% of the OZ pilots were furloughed just prior to the TW/OZ merger date ( Against ALL ALPA "Scope Rules, including TWA's..) TWA with 3 weeks notice removed the Ozark MD80's from the OZ ops cert and transferred them to the TWA ops cert. creating an overage of the OZ CA/FO's and thus OZ furloughs.

As for the other comment, it is truly amazing how there is ALWAYS a different feeling as to what is fair and not fair. You haven't figured that out yet.

AA

Don't bother with Herbst rantings. His is not a liked or respected man. TWA, OZ and, AA pilot alike can't stand the man or his self righteous, pompous, diatribes.

 

[TWA Dude]

I'm seeing the expression "career expectations" (CE) being thrown around and it troubles me because it's purely subjective. CE is nothing but a verbal weapon used to justify a windfall. Only an informed person not involved, ie, an arbitrator, can possibly render objective opinions. Just MHO.

 

[TWA Dude]

Don't bother with Herbst rantings. His is not a liked or respected man. TWA, OZ and, AA pilot alike can't stand the man or his self righteous, pompous, diatribes.

Jiminy cricket! Can y'all stop with the personal named attacks. I've actually flown with him and I happen to disagree with your insults.

 

[NAA Pilot]

Jiminy cricket! Can y'all stop with the personal named attacks. I've actually flown with him and I happen to disagree with your insults.

Adam:

I have flown with him too. He is an ASS.

 

[erjdude]

Goody! I might be considered for a preferential interview at the airline I worked for and have recall rights to still. You guys are very generous. And I'm sure the '88 hires that are furloughed will be very appreciative of this too - given that some of you are AWA pilots who began primary flight training after their DOH at the "surviving" company (another thread for those who want to beat this horse).

And you guys wonder why GoJets finds qualified pilots!


Don't worry, no U furloughee will bump an AWA pilot to the street. We'll all be (at best) on the bottom of the list. I have no doubt about this.


Godspeed to all involved.

Know doubt this is a raw deal for all furloughed u pilots. But answere this. If u had remained a stand alone airline and you were to be recalled what kind of seniority would you have? im guesing you would be at the bottom. So what exactly changed?