IBT Airline Division/Local 357 Scorecard

OpenClimb

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
69
Total Time
>1
Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that the IBT pilots are receiving a windfall as a result of the Eischen award.

Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that I and other similarly-situated Frontier pilots left various forms of crappy entry-level aviation jobs to start over at the bottom of the list as F9 newhires.

Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that the career expectations when hired at a crappy entry-level aviation job do not include flying an Airbus with mainline workrules and payscales.

As for my peers losing respect for me. Sorry no. I have friends in virtually every corner of the aviation world and they all agree that the F9 pilots are getting screwed by a wackado arbitrator and a bunch of IBT opportunists. Every one of my friends has offered to do what they can to help me get hired at their company. I haven't taken anyone up on any offers of help because (a) most of them aren't hiring anyway, (b) I'm not sure I want to start over at the bottom of anyone's list at this point, and (c) I have other options outside aviation and may pursue those, instead.
 

StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
Total Time
10500
f9 pilots have no honor, no integrity, ungrateful, and liars!
you all seem to forget there are other employee groups other than pilots in your company who have lost any support and respect for all you! Remember that!

There are more than a few "thank you" cards in the FAPA office signed by gate agents, CSR's, scouts, and FA's that seem to conflict with your theory. When was the last time an IBT represented pilot group received a gift from another employee group? FAPA's relationship with everyone at Frontier, from the ramp all the way up to the DO, has NEVER been stronger than it is today.

I have yet to hear ONE complaint from any original Frontier employee in any department. In fact, everyone has shared unanimous support for us recently, especially since LOA 67.
 

StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
Total Time
10500
and when you get out from the RAH umbrella, please don't forget us Lynx guys

You are actually in pretty good shape. Hopefully you will get displaced into the 190. The Almighty Scope Language in the Chautauqua CBA caused the IBT to overlook some trivial items like hourly pay, work rules, and vacancy bidding language.

The only new aircraft coming on property are the 190's, and the q's are going away along with some 145's and 170's. If you get displaced into the 190 you (and the throngs of other junior folks flying the highest paying aircraft) will be in great shape when this thing comes apart.
 

flylike44

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
227
Total Time
$1
Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that the IBT pilots are receiving a windfall as a result of the Eischen award.

Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that I and other similarly-situated Frontier pilots left various forms of crappy entry-level aviation jobs to start over at the bottom of the list as F9 newhires.

Nothing anyone has said changes the fact that the career expectations when hired at a crappy entry-level aviation job do not include flying an Airbus with mainline workrules and payscales.

As for my peers losing respect for me. Sorry no. I have friends in virtually every corner of the aviation world and they all agree that the F9 pilots are getting screwed by a wackado arbitrator and a bunch of IBT opportunists. Every one of my friends has offered to do what they can to help me get hired at their company. I haven't taken anyone up on any offers of help because (a) most of them aren't hiring anyway, (b) I'm not sure I want to start over at the bottom of anyone's list at this point, and (c) I have other options outside aviation and may pursue those, instead.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Republic's work rules and pay suck, goes without saying. But F9's work rules and pay aren't anything to crow about. And you just agreed to a concessionary LOA that eroded those "mainline work rules and payscales" even further (and that decision, no matter what you may think the endgame is for BB and CO, affected more employees than just the F9 pilots).
 

blott

test
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Posts
259
Total Time
>2500
"I have yet to hear ONE complaint from any original Frontier employee in any department. In fact, everyone has shared unanimous support for us recently, especially since LOA 67."

Didn't the original Frontier shut down in 1986? So, you personally haven't heard any complaints, from the people that got shut down 25 years ago?
 

Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
There are more than a few "thank you" cards in the FAPA office signed by gate agents, CSR's, scouts, and FA's that seem to conflict with your theory. When was the last time an IBT represented pilot group received a gift from another employee group? FAPA's relationship with everyone at Frontier, from the ramp all the way up to the DO, has NEVER been stronger than it is today.

I have yet to hear ONE complaint from any original Frontier employee in any department. In fact, everyone has shared unanimous support for us recently, especially since LOA 67.

How many "thank you" cards did you get from other pilot groups for lowering the bar ? Maybe SWA sent one,since I'm sure they're glad that deal didn't happen.
 

StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
Total Time
10500
How many "thank you" cards did you get from other pilot groups for lowering the bar ? Maybe SWA sent one,since I'm sure they're glad that deal didn't happen.

How exactly did we lower the bar?

We have never touched one work rule or any contract language, even during BK.

We still have a 6% DC contribution, and our 401k match returns in four months.

Our pay isn't the highest but it is higher than virgin, allegiant, spirit, United, and USairways, and it is on par with Airtran. Our pay is lower than the rest of the Legacies (American, Delta, CAL), Alaska and Jet Blue. None of us are happy with our pay rates, but we have no problem sitting at a collective bargaining roundtable with the rest of the industry every year (I can't say that I have ever seen the IBT in attendance).

There is a bunch of hyperbole about our recent "concessions". We didn't take a pay cut, but defered two raises to a later date. If deferring raises to a later date is considered "lowering the bar", I would hate to see the definition of some of the CBA's that are active today.

Speaking of CBA's, have you TA'd any sections yet? I keep hearing that you will have a new CBA by the end of the year and I am wondering how that will be possible. I imagine that you guys are asking for a HUGE retro check, considering the fact that your CBA has been amendable for four years now. Do you think the RAH pilot group will ratify low pay rates in exchange for a healthy retro check, considering the fact that a lot of guys are bailing and they will just take the money and run? I bet the company would love for that to happen. It is a lot cheaper to pay a few thousand dollars today instead of a few million dollars over the lifespan of a CBA.
 

LongBeachTrijet

"Looser"
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Posts
192
Total Time
n/a
Frontier has already cost all of the Republic employees, HUGE, not only the pilots. I think you forget who bailed Frontier out, costing all of the RAH employees their year end bonuses, and the bonuses we did recieve the Frontier employees whined it was not enough.

It was the RAH employees who made this company the money, and still does, while Frontier continually reports a loss.

And yet the F9 pilots negogiate a deal with the company, during a union vote, for concessions, even a stupid dispatcher knows that you and the company did this to seperate the 2 groups, and the RAH pilots get treated like crap.

And let me ask you, what are the RAH employees benefits from all of this, who work for the profitiable side of the company. FRICKIN NOTHING!!!

Frontier has done nothing since day 1 but take money out of the pockets of all the RAH employees, and yet do nothing but complain about the company.

Wow! Do you actually think that the rank and file of either Frontier or RAH have anything to do with if they're profitable or not? i.e. Pilots comply with regulations and written company policies and procedures to move the metal from point A to B when it is safe and legal to do so. We have zero control over whether the flying is profitable or not. That is the job of management. Airline Business 101.
 

ChinaClipper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2002
Posts
460
Total Time
12k+
Lowering the bar is replacing Mainline jobs with RJ's.....ring a bell? BTW What have you gotten for 6 years of IBT dues? NOTHING! BB and Co has you on the ropes for at least another 2-3 years. IBT National has a HUGE crisis on their hands...ALL SELF-INFLICTED.....nothing like 700 people in you house waiting to slit your throat at the first opportunity they can get....a COLOSSAL failure for National to COMPLETELY UNDERESTIMATE the anger from the F9 group. The internal strife will make it IMPOSSIBLE to get anything moving forward! The Native RAH Guys will pay the price, by not getting a contract for a LONG TIME! Keep the lawyers busy, IBT National, the F9 guys are lying in wait....and the misery of the RAH "contract" continues.....
 

Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
Lowering the bar is replacing Mainline jobs with RJ's.....ring a bell? BTW What have you gotten for 6 years of IBT dues? NOTHING! BB and Co has you on the ropes for at least another 2-3 years. IBT National has a HUGE crisis on their hands...ALL SELF-INFLICTED.....nothing like 700 people in you house waiting to slit your throat at the first opportunity they can get....a COLOSSAL failure for National to COMPLETELY UNDERESTIMATE the anger from the F9 group. The internal strife will make it IMPOSSIBLE to get anything moving forward! The Native RAH Guys will pay the price, by not getting a contract for a LONG TIME! Keep the lawyers busy, IBT National, the F9 guys are lying in wait....and the misery of the RAH "contract" continues.....

Uh,wait..What's that in your profile ? "CL65" ? "E145" ? Is that how YOU "Raise the bar" ? The IBT's case is rock solid.Investco will be bankrupt when the dust settles.Buh-bye ,now,buh-bye...
 

SizzleChest

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Posts
269
Total Time
8000+
Lowering the bar is replacing Mainline jobs with RJ's.....ring a bell? BTW What have you gotten for 6 years of IBT dues? NOTHING! BB and Co has you on the ropes for at least another 2-3 years. IBT National has a HUGE crisis on their hands...ALL SELF-INFLICTED.....nothing like 700 people in you house waiting to slit your throat at the first opportunity they can get....a COLOSSAL failure for National to COMPLETELY UNDERESTIMATE the anger from the F9 group. The internal strife will make it IMPOSSIBLE to get anything moving forward! The Native RAH Guys will pay the price, by not getting a contract for a LONG TIME! Keep the lawyers busy, IBT National, the F9 guys are lying in wait....and the misery of the RAH "contract" continues.....

"lower the bar" & "replacing jobs with RJs"??? Really? This from a guy with 1900 and ERJ types/experience? Ahhhhhhhh .....?

For 6 years we got a SLI result that most mirrored the IBT proposal, the recent rejection of RAHs request to expedite a DC ruling, an informational picket during a Mediation meeting, rejection of FAPA & RPC, a cool lanyard, etc...... more than I can say has happened in the past around here but all quite positive and enlightening. As far as 700 pilots..... just more crybaby antics from chronologically grown adults..... and F9 was worried about RJ guys being immature....
 

Bolo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
131
Total Time
Enough
"lower the bar" & "replacing jobs with RJs"??? Really? This from a guy with 1900 and ERJ types/experience? Ahhhhhhhh .....?

For 6 years we got a SLI result that most mirrored the IBT proposal, the recent rejection of RAHs request to expedite a DC ruling, an informational picket during a Mediation meeting, rejection of FAPA & RPC, a cool lanyard, etc...... more than I can say has happened in the past around here but all quite positive and enlightening. As far as 700 pilots..... just more crybaby antics from chronologically grown adults..... and F9 was worried about RJ guys being immature....


You really are a D-BAG! I truly mean that.
We will see who has the last laugh tough guy. Keep preaching IBT and how good your contract is. How close are you guys/gals on getting that record breaking contract? I cannot wait to see it.
In fraternity, One VOICE, One Contract, One Union! NOT!
Please wear your we are ONE Button.
BOZO!
 

Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
You really are a D-BAG! I truly mean that.
We will see who has the last laugh tough guy. Keep preaching IBT and how good your contract is. How close are you guys/gals on getting that record breaking contract? I cannot wait to see it.
In fraternity, One VOICE, One Contract, One Union! NOT!
Please wear your we are ONE Button.
BOZO!

Still bitter over the union vote,huh ? Or maybe it was the STS ruling ? The SLI ? I hear BB applied to change Frontier's code from F9 to CH7.
 

USMC319

As you were Gents
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
293
Total Time
15,000
Sadly, most of the Frontier pilots would rather BB take F9 into Bankruptcy protection than to have to have any association with the RAH pilot group or the IBT. Anyone that has read anything Sizzle Chest, Bluestreak, and their ilk certainly understand why.

Having been forced into IBT representation at Frontier for the past 2 months, I can already say with certainty that it's the worst airline union that I've been associated with in my lifetime. I think I would rather be on the front end of the next hiring wave elsewhere than stay here and be associated with either the IBT and the likes of the Republic pilots you see posting on this site. And I will definitely not apply to any IBT represented airline for the rest of my career.
 

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
Its unbelieveable how much you guys get worked up over a ********************ing union? They all suck! You guys get all defensive like somebody is making a personal attack about your child! What is wrong with you people? :nuts:
 
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Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
DJ: Do you expect that seniority of Frontier pilots in a combined work force with Southwest will be a major sticking point. Stemmler. It’s the biggest issue. Seniority is life in aviation. There as many formulas for seniority as there have been mergers. The best-case scenario is that they phase out Frontier’s Airbuses and retrain Frontier pilots to fly 737s (the Boeing plane in the Southwest fleet), resulting in no net work-force reduction. The worst case is that Southwest ignores Frontier’s seniority and our pilots are put at the back of the list.
 

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
The deal with Republic has people in Denver celebrating because it prevented Frontier from being sold to Southwest Airlines, which would have likely resulted in thousands of job cuts. Republic, which is a contract flier for other airlines, will likely keep more Frontier jobs because it doesn’t currently employ ticket handlers or do route planning.
The Frontier pilots were key to the outcome because they balked at a proposal by Southwest’s pilots union that would have put the Frontier pilots at the bottom of the seniority list of the combined companies. Southwest was unwilling to negotiate and handed the keys to Republic.
 
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