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IBT Airline Division/Local 357 Scorecard

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
DJ: Why was seniority such a big issue? Stemmler: We have 640 active flying pilots. All of them would have been positioned at the bottom of the seniority list, or stapled to the bottom as we call it. Southwest is ten times larger than we are. There was no way Frontier pilots were going to move (up that list). We only had four hours to negotiate. It took Delta Northwest six-and-a-half months to negotiate the seniority issue (amid merger talks between those airlines).
 

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
DJ: How will Frontier seniority be sorted out with Republic pilots?
Stemmler: We have confidence we can come up with a consensual list since we have time. Southwest said we will close only if you can come up with a list. Republic says we will close and we will operate Frontier as a fenced off entity until (Frontier and Republic pilots) reach a deal. And in case we can’t reach a deal, it will go to binding arbitration.
 

ricj41

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Posts
82
Total Time
6500
You apparently have no understanding why the frontier pilots are so angry with the IBT. And I am not going to bother. Understand, either we seperate or frontier goes under. Frontier pilots will leave faster then they can be replaced if Republic pilots come over with their IMSL seniority. Republic is not going to replace 5,6,7 year pay scale pilots with 10 year pay scale pilots. Why don't you get that. So then you have 700 frontier pilots looking for jobs along with you Republic pilots. Even more competion for a handful of jobs. So who do you think airlines will hire?
 

ricj41

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Posts
82
Total Time
6500
Even if you guys win and the next new hires comes off the IMSL with seniority intact. We will not begin hiring till next year. So our pilots will know that their career at frontier is over but not for six months or so. That gives our pilots plenty of time to find new jobs in aviation or out. So in 4 months we have pilots fleeing frontier in droves. 20-30 at a time. It takes at a minimum 2 months to train and replace a pilot who leaves. Over half of our fo's could be out the door before 1 republic pilot steps foot in an airbus. Do you really think that Frontier would still be a viable entity if that happened? Or do you just not care?
You guys seem to think 100s of republic pilots will just start walking over to frontier next month. You would only be able to come over as we need pilots. At the most 20-30 total next year.
I am half way up the first officer side and I will immediatly start looking for a job if you guys are able to come over ahead of me. I can only imagine that the 200 pilots below me along with most of the other fo's ahead of me will do the same. Frontier will shut down if that happens. You need to understand that. You will never be able to bid over to Frontier because there will be no Frontier.
 

ricj41

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Posts
82
Total Time
6500
Even if you guys win and the next new hires comes off the IMSL with seniority intact. We will not begin hiring till next year. So our pilots will know that their career at frontier is over but not for six months or so. That gives our pilots plenty of time to find new jobs in aviation or out. So in 4 months we have pilots fleeing frontier in droves. 20-30 at a time. It takes at a minimum 2 months to train and replace a pilot who leaves. Over half of our fo's could be out the door before 1 republic pilot steps foot in an airbus. Do you really think that Frontier would still be a viable entity if that happened? Or do you just not care?
You guys seem to think 100s of republic pilots will just start walking over to frontier next month. You would only be able to come over as we need pilots. At the most 20-30 total next year.
I am half way up the first officer side and I will immediatly start looking for a job if you guys are able to come over ahead of me. I can only imagine that the 200 pilots below me along with most of the other fo's ahead of me will do the same. Frontier will shut down if that happens. You need to understand that. You will never be able to bid over to Frontier because there will be no Frontier.
 

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
You nailed it, buddy! Not one person that I have flown with has any desire to go to F9 anyways! You guys all think that the RAH pilots want your jobs, I can assure you, they dont!!!! People are already leaving RAH in those numbers anyways so I dont think you have anything to worry about.
 
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F9 Driver

Wear The Fox Hat
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Posts
515
Total Time
11000+
You nailed it, buddy! Not one person that I have flown with has any desire to go to F9 anyways! You guys all think that the RAH pilots want your jobs, I can assure you, they dont!!!!
How quickly they forget...
 

Grey Ghost

God Bless America!
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
757
Total Time
32500
Boy, that was clever!!!!
 
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Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
SWA had the upper hand-F9 had nothing any SWA pilot wanted.But,the strategy was simple: Turn down SWA-they will play hardball with the SLI and they know they have nothing to gain by playing along.On the other hand,we'll just staple these stupid "commuter pilots" and tell them where to get off.What are they gonna do-turn the "Dumstah Union" loose on us ? Bwahaha !

Result: SLI-IBT
STS-IBT
Election-IBT
Lawsuit-to be decided

When FAPA saw the election wasn't going their way,in an act of desperation,they sued to stop it ! THAT didn't work,so they cut a deal with the Rev.So,now F9 is a money furnace.The board said "enough !" and cut of the money spigot.If you were on the B.O.D. what would you do ? Shut down the profitable part of the company ? Uh-huh.BB needs to find a buyer-fast.SWA and Unical are eating your lunch in DEN.The clock is ticking.
 

hockeypilot44

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Posts
893
Total Time
You nailed it, buddy! Not one person that I have flown with has any desire to go to F9 anyways! You guys all think that the RAH pilots want your jobs, I can assure you, they dont!!!! People are already leaving RAH in those numbers anyways so I dont think you have anything to worry about.

I know a couple 190 captains that want to be Airbus captains with their integrated seniority number. They don't want to displace any current captain, but they feel any new Airbus captain seats should be awarded in seniority order just like any other opening at Republic.
 

Bolo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
131
Total Time
Enough
I know a couple 190 captains that want to be Airbus captains with their integrated seniority number. They don't want to displace any current captain, but they feel any new Airbus captain seats should be awarded in seniority order just like any other opening at Republic.


Having a Captain upgrade class as we speak. Last time I looked they were all F9 pilots. Not going to happen!
 

Bolo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
131
Total Time
Enough
For every action there is a reaction. This time it is on the IBT. Frivolous lawsuit against RAH and FAPA equals 6 E-190 deferrals for this year. Roughly 10 crews per aircraft equals 60 pilots not upgrading. What I would like to know are these the aircraft that were suppose to replace the E-145's that were going away? If so then maybe downgrades and furloughs, with a loss of aircraft.
What I am ultimately getting at is the IBT is willing to eat their own young to prove a point. Look where it has gotten you? Whether you like it or not this relationship is symbiotic, you need F9 as well to fly these 190's because your aircraft exceed the scope limit for ever legacy carrier out there. No F9, No E190's.
Thanks IBT for the cash infusion while you screw your own.
Maybe the IBT really should concentrate on getting you a fair and equitable contract that you have not had for such a long time. This frivolous lawsuit just put you back a couple of more years.
Quit blaming FAPA for everything, and put Turner and Bourne on the hot seat!
 
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StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
Total Time
10500
SWA had the upper hand-F9 had nothing any SWA pilot wanted.But,the strategy was simple: Turn down SWA-they will play hardball with the SLI and they know they have nothing to gain by playing along.On the other hand,we'll just staple these stupid "commuter pilots" and tell them where to get off.What are they gonna do-turn the "Dumstah Union" loose on us ? Bwahaha !

Result: SLI-IBT
STS-IBT
Election-IBT
Lawsuit-to be decided

When FAPA saw the election wasn't going their way,in an act of desperation,they sued to stop it ! THAT didn't work,so they cut a deal with the Rev.So,now F9 is a money furnace.The board said "enough !" and cut of the money spigot.If you were on the B.O.D. what would you do ? Shut down the profitable part of the company ? Uh-huh.BB needs to find a buyer-fast.SWA and Unical are eating your lunch in DEN.The clock is ticking.

Actually ....

SLI - as of now it is just a list of names, can you bid an airbus?
STS - LOA 67 fixed this, so the IBT sued
Election - yup ibt won, you outnumbered us 3-1. Congrats!
Lawsuit - which one? TBD

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Frontier will be spun off by this time next year or we will be out of business. According to greyghost, you guys will still be happy because you want to fly an rj for the rest of your career. We can certainly help you with that wish.
 

StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
Total Time
10500
October 1 DFR filing?

From Bedfords most recent letter...

"IBT lawsuit

I have been getting a lot of questions from employees about this topic so I will try and address it openly. While we continue to make good progress on our Frontier restructuring program, our efforts to close a secured-debt financing transaction to generate $70 million to $80 million in new liquidity is dead in the water due to the ongoing IBT lawsuit. It is equally clear that this uncertainty will not be removed by the Sept. 30 targeted completion date. Needless to say this was an unexpected and unproductive setback to our original plans. We are working closely with all our stakeholders to delay the requirement to complete the cash raise to a future, as yet to be determined, date. However, there is no guarantee that we will obtain such modifications to the current agreements; which unfortunately adds stress and uncertainty to a situation that isn't helpful to anyone."

If any one of the agreements (GECAS, FAPA, expedia, ect) falls apart as a result of the reckless IBT lawsuit against their own members, the IBT is going to get crushed with a DFR lawsuit.

Additionally, for all of you that voted for the IBT, they just cost you six airframes worth of growth....

Bedford is deferring the only six 190's with financing in an effort to save $36 million. He also said an asset sale is in the works to make up the additional shortage that your reckless lawsuit caused.

The 145's can't be sold for a profit, so begin to prepare yourself for a 170/175 sale.

Great job IBT. Your lawsuit isn't just going to screw over your 700 newest members but also your 2000 RAH folks.
 

Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
"From Bedfords most recent letter..."

(Useless drivel snipped-see also "If you don't take paycuts,we'll never fly for United" cica 2004)

"If any one of the agreements (GECAS, FAPA, expedia, ect) falls apart as a result of the reckless IBT lawsuit against their own members, the IBT is going to get crushed with a DFR lawsuit."

Perhaps there is that "illegal" and "breaking the law " part that escapes you ? Talk about reckless !

"Additionally, for all of you that voted for the IBT, they just cost you six airframes worth of growth...."

Not really-two guys are leaving to pick up a 190 next week.Having integrity issues ?

"Bedford is deferring the only six 190's with financing in an effort to save $36 million. He also said an asset sale is in the works to make up the additional shortage that your reckless lawsuit caused."

The "reckless" lawsuit is a result of reckless,irresponsible ,ILLEGAL actions by FAPA. You believe him ? Sucker !

"The 145's can't be sold for a profit, so begin to prepare yourself for a 170/175 sale. "

Are you an aircraft broker ? If anything is for sale,it's going to be an Airbus.

"Great job IBT. Your lawsuit isn't just going to screw over your 700 newest members but also your 2000 RAH folks."

We don't have 700 new members.Did you join ? Of course not. Buh-bye now,go join the Glub Club.
 

embraerjetpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Posts
301
Total Time
4500
Funny..you guys wanted to staple us to the bottom of our own list... Wait, isnt that what southwest was going to do to you?

Frontier goes away very very few republic people would be upset about it. And you guys really have nothing to worry about because seven years from today 80 percent of us wont be here.
 

Bolo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
131
Total Time
Enough
Frontier goes away very very few republic people would be upset about it. And you guys really have nothing to worry about because seven years from today 80 percent of us wont be here.

I am glad we are on the same page, except the 20% that will be there in 7 years. Those would be the lifers/sour apples. Next year this time roughly we will see if that even happens. I wish the 80% the best of luck.(I do mean that)

Tell your 60 or so pilots that were going to upgrade/transition sorry for the IBT's recklessness. No new contract in how many years? And now stagnation. That blows! Don't pin this one FAPA, your typical escape goat.
Does your representetives like Turner and Bourne ever come out and have meetings? I would demand some answers!

Tell Blue Streak to keep spouting out garbage. The stuff that comes out his mouth looks like his avatar. He is blowing off the 6 deferrals like as if nothing happened. Keep smiling:)
 

Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
Are your initials RC ? I think I've seen your picture floating around for not letting RAH pilots jumpseat.Keep it up !

"Tell your 60 or so pilots that were going to upgrade/transition sorry for the IBT's recklessness."

Actually,the IBT would be reckless for not challenging this.I'm sure if there were 60 upgrades,they would rather wait and see this lawsuit proceed.Did FAPA's counsel actually think they knew more about the law than the Federal Government ?

" No new contract in how many years? "

How long has American been at it ? What's your point ?

"Don't pin this one FAPA, your typical escape (sic)goat."

Did you mean "scapegoat" ? Actually,this is 100% FAPA's fault-did you think you could get away with this ? It's that "ILLEGAL" and "Against the law" part you don't get.

"Does (sic)your representetives like Turner and Bourne ever come out and have meetings? I would demand some answers! "

Yep,you bet-been to a few of them.

"Tell Blue Streak to keep spouting out garbage. The stuff that comes out his mouth looks like his avatar."

Too bad you consider facts as "garbage" says a lot about you.As for the Fatty-I'm soooo crushed ! Just because you drive a clapped-out Neon is no reason to talk smack.I'm sure you get a lot of compliments on it...Bwahaha !

"He is blowing off the 6 deferrals like as if nothing happened. Keep smiling."

I'm so sure the welfare of the RAH pilot group is a top priority for you.BB told us the delays from Embraer were due to the Tsunami and the parts made in Japan.Now we hear it's Embraer.Still,they're picking up one next week,but don't let facts get in your way.Oh,when FAPA is burnt to ashes and ends up owing IBT and is fined to oblivion,I WILL be smiling.
 
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Bluestreak

Fitty-Six F100's rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
375
Total Time
Miller
Oh,look ! Bolo sent me a PM !!! I'm SOOO excited !! Hey,Bolo,did you see this:

"Republic Airways Holdings (Indianapolis) reported operating revenues of $739.7 million for the quarter ended June 30, 2011, an increase of 8.3%, compared to $683.3 million for the same period last year. The increase in revenues is primarily due to a 10.6% increase in Frontier Airlines’ unit revenues. On a GAAP basis, the Company reported a net loss of $14.9 million, or $0.31 per diluted share, for the quarter ended June 30, 2011, compared to net income of $2.6 million, or $0.08 per diluted share, for the same period last year."

Here's a riddle for you:What do you call a company that lost $5 million a month ? Answer:Insolvent.Too bad the money tap is shut off ! I'm glad the BOD decided not to subsidize the F9 trainwreck anymore.Winter is coming-are you ready ?
 
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