IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[Freedom]

Exhibit A

I am concerned with what you aren't being told now.

To summarize your point: The Flight Options leadership NEVER stayed on budget. They were costing over $100,000 a month above Flight Options dues revenues for 2008. And, like the IBT the NetJets cashflow was the "solidarity."

Ironically, all this while a [former] Flight Options MEC Chairman and a Negotiating Committee member wan't paying dues. But, the Flight Options leadership group refused to address the issue until the NetJets Sec/Treas refused to "keep it all under the radar."

I'm having flashbacks of all the sweeping under the rug "solidarity."

The only way to get your contract is to lay down the heat and have solidarity within your pilot group. You can blame whoever you want - but that's the bottom line - it's up to your pilot group; not NetJets and not Hoffa. It's up to the Flight Options pilot group and nobody else.

Getting at least 50% of the Flight Options pilot group to pay dues per the Local 1108 Bylaws would be a great improvement in "solidarity." Otherwise, having the International fund the effort would be another great demonstration of solidarity as well. But, being chickensh!t and deflecting it the NetJets pilot group is truly sad and not very Strong Union.

Whether these numbers are accurate or not is certainly a matter for debate.

But the fact they came from a former Executive Board President of the 1108 (a NetJets Pilot), and were placed onto a Public Message Board, well...

I rest my case.

Freedom is Not Free.

 

[PigPile]

What kind of leaders are/were they if did not consult with ALL parties involved?

Plain and simple. They were misled puppets of B.M. for the sneak attack.

Feel sorry for them if you will ,but it proves they weren't worthy enough to really lead or they would not have done what they did.

I wish the FO pilots the best and hope they can become stronger by this and eventually catch up to the caliber of the NJA pilots.

Yup, that last statement about "caliber" is just what I have been getting from this entire thread. It seems that many NJ pilots look down on the Flops group as a lower class incapable of taking care of themselves.

Great show of support!

And for the dissemination of financial information on a public board. Real classy! No better way to put valuable info into mgmts hands than that.

Again, thanks for the support!

And most of all, telling the pilots to do as they wish with the money left behind (original statement was something about a Circle jk) and another pilot who contributed funds to the RIF pilots asking for the money back when the RIF pilots had nothing to do with this....

Thanks so much for your support!!!

Let it be known that the Flops pilots greatly appreciated the guidance that the NJ pilots provided them through the first two years. That is FACT and not opinion like a lot of what has been posted here.

It just saddens me to see how the average line pilot is being clumped into this mess. And worst of all the RIF pilots.

You can say all you want that there is still support for the Flops pilots, but it is statements like those above and others in this thread that have cast a shadow of doubt in some cases.

Thanks for the support!

 

[boxhauler]

I haven't been on this board for quite awhile, and now I know why. There is no Bull******************** Filter. The best Bull******************** Filter, is using your own real name. That's the biggest failing of this board.

Do you think FLOPS management is not seeing and contributing to this and licking their chops?

Do you think the perps are not here telling a different story?

After law enforcement and the press get the facts out, it may be too late and some more damage may have been done.

FLOPS pilots are in the middle (or thereabouts) of negotiations with management. To leave 1108 at this time would surely add to the time frame of denial of a contract. However, as soon as you guys get a contract, my advice is to do exactly what the Netjets folks did, and pull the plug on those thieving bastards.

The Flight Options pilots I've run across are just as professional, personal and service oriented as any; I would fly with any of them (not the 2 scoundrels or any of their supporters). I've always said that any company that has a union, deserves a union. You guys at FLOPS certainly need one bad. I wish you all good luck and Godspeed. Leadership at the local level is the KEY!

 

[CastofThousands]

I don't want to slam the Man, so I won't.

But if you go back through all of this thread, and view his Posts, especially the one by "Phoenix", you will have a pretty good idea of just how high up the NetJets Pilot's leadership pole this guy sat. As in the top.

Yet he finds it acceptable to start publishing, on a Public Website, financial numbers and membership percentages that if true, could seriously hurt the Flight Options Pilots Negotiating position with our Manangement.

Why would he do such a thing? I thought his Beef was with the National and these two Flight Options Leaders (who by the way, I view as Heroes in this process).

The answer should be pretty obviously to anyone with half a brain. Either the NetJets Leadership was planning to transfer funds that they had no legal right to, into an NJASAP account, and our Leaderships actions stopped them, or what I hope is the case, this former E-Board President had his feelings hurt because the Flight Options Pilots Leaders, under the Direction of the National, went in and made a Preemptive Strike to assure the Resources which rightfully belonged to the remaining IBT 1108 Members (Flight Options Pilots) could not be raided at the 11th hour.

There is absolutely no excuse for the behavior of the former E-Board President on this website which directly hurt the Flight Options Pilots, none.

What he did by revealing confidential numbers on this website makes that fact that our former Flight Options MEC Chairman (not Mat) inadvertently missed a Dues Payment, look like child's play by comparison.

The former Executive Board President of the 1108, INTENTIONALLY set out to harm the Flight Options Pilots by revealing this confidential information.

It should be obviously to all that he was placing his EGO ahead of the interests of the Flight Options Pilots.

This action gives a clear picture of the man's True Colors. Now that he is no longer a part of the IBT 1108, he could give a crap about the Flight Options Pilots. When he was the leader of the 1108, he not only wanted the Options Pilots to do well as members of the 1108, but also wanted Citation Shares and FlexJet Pilots to jion.

This man's EGO seems to be larger than the Mountains around which he lives. And this EGO, is now harming the Flight Options Pilots. That is something I cannot stand by and watch.

I am a Hostage. I sacrificed my Job for this fight. I will not let this former Executive Board President come in here and attempt to harm my fellow Pilots and our Cause unchecked.

That is all.

Freedom is Not Free

Wrong again. We have always made sure the NetJets pilots are informed - very informed; budgets, revenues, expenses, committee participation, volunteer network, voter participation, company participation, you name it. That's always been the Strong Union style.

From its inception the Flight Options leadership demanded that the NetJets leadership group remain at arms length from Flight Options business and politics. That has always been honored as long as it conformed to the bylaws. Anyone that would dispute to the contrary, is nothing short of a liar. I have never attended one Flight Options MEC meeting or bargaining session. Very few NetJets pilots have. Two very capable NetJets negotiators and elected Executive Board members were chased out of Flight Options bargaining (and they both expressed concerns with what they saw). The Flight Options leadership has demanded control of their communications, and with legal counsel review that has always been honored by 1108.

Generally speaking the Flight Options leadership asks/asked for NetJets money, money, and more money. 1108 hired dedicated attorneys and advisors at the request of the Flight Options leadership; Wilder, Wentz and Dubinsky.

Absolutely read all the information - that's the point. What has amazed me this past week is how out of touch and uninformed the Flight Option pilot group appears to be (leadership issue, not pilot issue) with the true behind the scenes workings of their union and its evolution. That's unacceptable, hence my making more posts on FI in 48 hours than I have made in 48 months. If you truly believe informed pilots are a bad thing and have little faith in your pilot group to step up knowing all that facts and the reality of the situation - that says it all. You failed before you started. Truth be told we bargained the NetJets agreements a lot differently than the Flight Options agreement is being negotiated (different methods at the table).

I have all the faith in the world in pilots as long as they get a good shot of reality; the truth, they want the bottom line. A real assessment and the more perspectives the better.

Make no mistake about, the Flight Option leadership has always called the Flight Options shots. The NetJets pilots have simply bank rolled the effort as clearly outlined in these posts, and at the request of the Flight Options group.

A piece of advice: Don't keep pilots in the dark and feed them sh!t - They will eat you alive, as they should.

When I saw what I saw and knowing what I know - there comes a time where you don't allow others to rewrite history to suit their needs. Especially after crawling in bed with the IBT to screw the NetJets pilot group. Note: The IBT and Flight Options pilots that tried this got hit right between the eyes in the end - as it should be.

Deny, deny, deny all you want. But, the Flight Options leadership USED the NetJets pilots and failed to show good faith as the NetJets pilot group was moving on. You can join your posse in turning the tables - BUT, that's when it becomes time to speak out.

The NetJets pilots know the truth can be brutal, but they would rather have the truth and full story. And, that's why they overwhelmingly demonstrate their support on FI and on the flight line. Strong Union has built and run an organization in which EVERY NetJets pilot is proud to associate.

Turn the tables and spin it all you want - but your not doing the Flight Options pilots any good. In the end ignorance comes at their expense. I would suggest you simply deal with them straight up and quit using everyone and everything as an excuse; nobody respects victims of their own self-fulfilling prophecies.

Your successes will be your successes and your failures will be your failures. Attempting to blame your failures on those who have unconditionally supported the Flight Options pilots for years sets a new standard for weak. But of course, we know who will be there to take credit for the successes (IBT).

Weakness will be your failure and harms you and the Flight Options pilot group far more than [full] union disclosure.


Oh, and did someone mention "freedom is not free?"

...

 

[CastofThousands]

Whether these numbers are accurate or not is certainly a matter for debate.

But the fact they came from a former Executive Board President of the 1108 (a NetJets Pilot), and were placed onto a Public Message Board, well...

I rest my case.

Freedom is Not Free.

Weak union leaders fear an informed membership, and those weak leaders always hide behind others who follow blindly. Not to mention those who want to conceal the facts are simply hiding, and hiding from, reality ... weak leaders hide from reality and try to conceal it. Get the Flight Options reality on the table and deal with it, for a change!

You will have to forgive me if I see concealing union information and proper membership disclosure as - very weak! I have little sympathy for people who demonstrate such weaknesses.

Don't be so naive to think your opposition doesn't already have this information. THEY DO.

Furthermore, the more you hide it the more you play into the hands of the IBT's unwillingness to contribute to the Flight Options pilot cause. If the IBT has a $100 million reserve than they simply need to make those commitments public to the Flight Options pilot group.

Quit playing this game so ham fisted and weak - step into it, and step it up FOR THE PILOTS, rather than carry the IBT's dirty laundry in the dark smokey rooms.

Who the hell do you really think you're kidding/fooling? How dumb do you think people involved in the process and the pilots are? Give people more credit, including your opposition, and you'll do better and serve the pilot group much more effectively.

...

 

[Freedom]

So Say it My Lord.....

Wrong again. We have always made sure the NetJets pilots are informed - very informed; budgets, revenues, expenses, committee participation, volunteer network, voter participation, company participation, you name it. That's always been the Strong Union style.

From its inception the Flight Options leadership demanded that the NetJets leadership group remain at arms length from Flight Options business and politics. That has always been honored as long as it conformed to the bylaws. Anyone that would dispute to the contrary, is nothing short of a liar. I have never attended one Flight Options MEC meeting or bargaining session. Very few NetJets pilots have. Two very capable NetJets negotiators and elected Executive Board members were chased out of Flight Options bargaining (and they both expressed concerns with what they saw). The Flight Options leadership has demanded control of their communications, and with legal counsel review that has always been honored by 1108.

Generally speaking the Flight Options leadership asks/asked for NetJets money, money, and more money. 1108 hired dedicated attorneys and advisors at the request of the Flight Options leadership; Wilder, Wentz and Dubinsky.

Absolutely read all the information - that's the point. What has amazed me this past week is how out of touch and uninformed the Flight Option pilot group appears to be (leadership issue, not pilot issue) with the true behind the scenes workings of their union and its evolution. That's unacceptable, hence my making more posts on FI in 48 hours than I have made in 48 months. If you truly believe informed pilots are a bad thing and have little faith in your pilot group to step up knowing all that facts and the reality of the situation - that says it all. You failed before you started. Truth be told we bargained the NetJets agreements a lot differently than the Flight Options agreement is being negotiated (different methods at the table).

I have all the faith in the world in pilots as long as they get a good shot of reality; the truth, they want the bottom line. A real assessment and the more perspectives the better.

Make no mistake about, the Flight Option leadership has always called the Flight Options shots. The NetJets pilots have simply bank rolled the effort as clearly outlined in these posts, and at the request of the Flight Options group.

A piece of advice: Don't keep pilots in the dark and feed them sh!t - They will eat you alive, as they should.

When I saw what I saw and knowing what I know - there comes a time where you don't allow others to rewrite history to suit their needs. Especially after crawling in bed with the IBT to screw the NetJets pilot group. Note: The IBT and Flight Options pilots that tried this got hit right between the eyes in the end - as it should be.

Deny, deny, deny all you want. But, the Flight Options leadership USED the NetJets pilots and failed to show good faith as the NetJets pilot group was moving on. You can join your posse in turning the tables - BUT, that's when it becomes time to speak out.

The NetJets pilots know the truth can be brutal, but they would rather have the truth and full story. And, that's why they overwhelmingly demonstrate their support on FI and on the flight line. Strong Union has built and run an organization in which EVERY NetJets pilot is proud to associate.

Turn the tables and spin it all you want - but your not doing the Flight Options pilots any good. In the end ignorance comes at their expense. I would suggest you simply deal with them straight up and quit using everyone and everything as an excuse; nobody respects victims of their own self-fulfilling prophecies.

Your successes will be your successes and your failures will be your failures. Attempting to blame your failures on those who have unconditionally supported the Flight Options pilots for years sets a new standard for weak. But of course, we know who will be there to take credit for the successes (IBT).

Weakness will be your failure and harms you and the Flight Options pilot group far more than [full] union disclosure.


Oh, and did someone mention "freedom is not free?"

...

You guys ALWAYS seem to leave out one Critical Element when comparing what you accomplished and what we are trying to accomplish.

This is a First Contract for us. We currently have none of the contract protections you had in place when you closed your deal in 2005.

That includes the ability to challenge Wrongful Terminations. Flight Options Management has been using Terminating Employees as a Weapon to try and intimidate our troops. First they came after individuals, then after a large group.

Unlike the NetJets Pilots who Negotiated that great Contract in 2005, we have been "At Will" Employees throughout this process to a First Contract. You and your fellow Pilots had the protections of an existing Contract while negotiating a better one. A huge advantage.

True, eventually, we have to be willing to lose our jobs, all of us, for us to secure a First Contract. I have already lost mine. Our hope would be that we will be brought back as Hostages when the Contract is signed, but those of us that have been sacrificed by Flight Options Management, have paid a heavy price.

I understand NetJets had around a dozen hostages as well, out of a group of several thousand Pilots. Compare that to us, with the 70 RIF Pilots, Canpass Pilots, and 5 or 6 individuals, for a total of around 100 Hostages, out of a Pilot Group now standing at less than 500.

You can talk high and mighty about your accomplishments over at NetJets, and I will admit, they were indeed impressive. But you were fighting a War in a much different Theater than the Flight Options Pilots are.

Flight Options Management has had many more weapons available to attack us since we do not yet have the protections of an existing contract.

You are correct however that it is indeed the Flight Options Pilots, not our Leadership, not the NetJets Pilots, who will eventually Win this battle. The next few months will be very telling.

Our Leadership has called for support from our Line Pilots during our End Game of Negotiations. The Level of Support they receive, will dictate the quality (or lack there of) of the Contract they will vote on.

Let me say it again; there is a huge difference between negotiating for a First Contract under the RLA, vs a follow up Contract. Fortunately for you, you never had to fight that battle.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[CastofThousands]

Ah, weighing things and outlining [strengths and] weaknesses openly.

The NetJets pilot had plenty of challenges to overcome. For starters, we had NO money and many more the Flight Options pilot have not seen.

Bottom line: the NetJets pilots said "change it now, or let it go away" aka "STFD." That wasn't a bluff and the pilot group's commitment changed NetJets, hopefully forever.

Put reality on the table and deal with it. You either have the juice to get the deal you want, or not. If not, you cut the deal you need. Even the NetJets pilots had to make that tough decision. The NetJets pilots cut the deal we needed in 2005, not the deal we wanted. The reality was we had to evaluate what juice we had and ultimately the pilot group had to decide.

The rest is history,


...

 

[Freedom]

Finally We are in Agreement

Ah, weighing things and outlining [strengths and] weaknesses openly.

The NetJets pilot had plenty of challenges to overcome. For starters, we had NO money and many more the Flight Options pilot have not seen.

Bottom line: the NetJets pilots said "change it now, or let it go away" aka "STFD." That wasn't a bluff and the pilot group's commitment changed NetJets, hopefully forever.

Put reality on the table and deal with it. You either have the juice the get the deal you want, or not. If not, you cut the deal you need. Even the NetJets pilots had to make that tough decision. The NetJets pilots cut the deal we needed in 2005, not the deal we wanted. The reality was we had to evaluate what juice we had and ultimately the pilot group had to decide.

The rest is history,


...

I agree. Unless the remaining Flight Options Pilots are willing to "STFD" they will never get the Contract they deserve.

Of course, it is by no accident that Flight Options Management has gutted the most Vocal Pilots and those they believed had Strong Backbones from the Ranks.

No matter, that is the reality of the day. And those that remain, will need to stand (if I may borrow a NetJets previously used term) with "Ice in their Veins", if they ever hope to see a Contract worth signing.

I'm going to leave it right here Cast of Thousands. Glad we finally found some Common Ground.

Perhaps it is now best that both Pilot Groups put all this ugliness behind them, and move forward with their futures.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[CastofThousands]

I agree. Unless the remaining Flight Options Pilots are willing to "STFD" they will never get the Contract they deserve.

Of course, it is by no accident that Flight Options Management has gutted the most Vocal Pilots and those they believed had Strong Backbones from the Ranks.

No matter, that is the reality of the day. And those that remain, will need to stand (if I may borrow a NetJets previously used term) with "Ice in their Veins", if they ever hope to see a Contract worth signing.

I'm going to leave it right here Cast of Thousands. Glad we finally found some Common Ground.

Perhaps it is now best that both Pilot Groups put all this ugliness behind them, and move forward with their futures.

Freedom is Not Free

I have good friends who are in the group of 70. Make no mistake, that's the most difficult role to play in these union efforts. I continue to grease every skid I can getting Flight Options pilots job interviews at NetJets.

We have added a lot of Flight Options pilots to the NetJets group over the past two years. I have worked closely with NetJets management at the highest levels to make this happen once Flight Options started cutting back two years ago as part of the "Go-Forward" plan; when Flight Options was organized there were over 750 pilots. Now I understand it's less than 500.

I am confident Flight Options pilots will continue to receive strong consideration at NetJets.


...

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Who is the chicken sh*t moderator who changed the name of the thread???

FLOPS pilots try to steal NJA pilots money