I haven't stopped laughing yet!!

[typhoonpilot]

Dondk

I don't know the situation at TSA, but I don't understand how this agreement would result in the furlough of 15% of their pilots. The additional jets should provide more jobs both in the short term and the long term, not fewer jobs . You are right about the rate of delivery and the time for jobs to be available for all the USAirways furloughees it is quite a few years from the projections I have seen. In the meantime the respective regional should have a net growth. The only way TSA would have to furlough is if they are replacing two turboprops for one jet. Again, I would say that an agreement shouldn't allow the furlough of any active regional pilot on the day the deal is signed and no USAirways furloughee should be hired until all of that regionals furloughees have been recalled.

Eddie

Your summation is pretty good but I don't agree with saying it doesn't make sense for anyone but USAirways pilots. It makes a lot of sense for the regionals. They get more jets to fly which should be good for everybody on their list. In the case of Skywest, which is one of the possible regionals they get a new codeshare partner and a place for their ordered RJs to be flown. As I am told that the ones targeted for the United codeshare are in jeopardy. When and if all the USAirways furloughees are recalled the jets remain and the remaining regional pilots move up again.

Andy Neill

I don't see how this corrupts the seniority system. It is just like I said in my last response. Think of it as the regional buying another airline and having to take the pilots with the deal and giving them a fair and equitable seniority integration. No corruption there.

Bored to Death

The wholly owneds were where the majority of USAirways pilots would like to have seen the RJs go, barring them going on the mainline. A flowthrough should have been done years ago, but we can't cry over spilt milk. I sure don't cry about not being offered a job at Henson when they took over the FK-28 routes. Unfortunately this whole thing will be the death of the wholly owneds as they won't be able to compete without jets.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Another option would be to arrange a separate airline operation with the regional partners and staff the planes only with USAir furloughees. Everyone would be in the same boat, seniority would allow you guys to sit as F/O's and CPT's and fly together, then as things progress, begin to merge that operation into current regional operations at the parent regional. Smoother transition and less of a shock to the system. Just a thought.
gns2005

gns2005,

While I'm not involved in any of this, I see this as the potential wild card. If people think that the only upside exists that exists to this deal is for the UsAirways furloughees, wait and see how they'll feel if another carrier is started. Ostensibly, Wolf doesn't have the money to buy the aircraft, so doing something like putting the aircraft on the old Potomic Air or one of the WO's certificate doesn't work for him. With all of the subsidiaries, I assume Mesa's pilot contract is liberal at best when it comes to alter ego operations. What's to stop Ornstein from using the Freedom Air certificate and staffing with UsAirways furloughees? I'm sure that a side letter could be signed with USALPA to deal with CRJ700/900 issues in that case. When the UA/UsAirways merger was still going strong, there was talk of UsAirways giving on of the WO's (PSA I think) DOT certificate to Johnson so that he could start up DcAir without going through the app process. What's to stop Wolf from selling one of the WO's certificates to an airline like TSA with an agreement that they will use it to fly RJ's staffed completely by UsAirways furloughees? Any such deal, will ultimately cause more heartache than the current J4J deal, because every USX carrier will ultimately suffer a big loss of flying due to it. Obviously this doesn't apply to Skywest. They aren't
a USX carrier, and at present don't have much concrete to worry about until they see the outcome of the UA/UALALPA scope clause grievances.

Management doesn't care about any seniority arguments. They will typically give the two parties a chance to work it out amicably, after that they just do what it takes to get their revenue. Look at AA/TWA. Painful as it is, the best thing to do is probably keep negotiating and try to find a common ground. The management at US and USX are out to get their SJ's one way or another. I don't think anyonewants to see "plan B," come into play.

 

[Caveman]

The absolute gall of mainline pilots never ceases to amaze me. They mistakenly believe that the rest of the industry exists soley to improve the conditions at mainline. Every other pilot working anywhere else must abrogate their own careers on the off chance some mainline might throw them a bone and give them a job, someday, maybe. BS. I have a job and it's a good one. Sorry about your furloughs but it isn't my fault you picked a lousy company. I will welcome you at my comnpany after you apply, after you interview, and after you go to the bottom of our seniority list. Anything else is unacceptable.