I didn't know this about GVs.

[HawkerF/O]

"Adam Aircraft's A700, for example, sells for $2 million and has more sophisticated avionics in the cockpit than a $40 million Gulfstream G5, said company president Joe Walker. "

It's statements like these why they tell you to put the CRACK pipe down.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060118/ap_on_bi_ge/little_jets_1

 

[TXGold]

I wouldn't doubt it. GVs have Honeywell products in there cockpits. Honeywell is a frustrating conglomerate of redtape, and often time prohibitive in forward progress in technology. They are being sued right now by Falcon. I beleive the VLJ for the most part are going to be using Garmin. Garmin, I beleive has recently gotten a stake in some military contracts which Honeywell has had locked up forever. Garmin's stock is on the rise and has been for awhile. I have again, only heard, that the units in the VLJs and the new Garmin Glass products are a single unit, able to pull and replace. The Honeywell on our computers have all kinds of auxillary MAUs FWCs NZs PZs that all incorporate into the small units on the center console. It is a pain in the @ss to work on them. From what I can tell the new Garmin will be able to be pulled out of the airplane in a few easy steps and replaced with a loaner unit. The broken unit is sent back to Garmin, and you go on about your business. BTW GVs are 1980s technology. The Honeywell Epic in the Soveriegn we fly is a joke, of course until Phase Three fixes everything.
TXGold

 

[SCT]

VLJs are being discussed on the General board. So what do you guys think about the VLJs that will be coming out soon?

1. They will revolutionize the small mom/pop 135 industry. Companies will be parking 25 yr. old Aztecs, King Airs, and 310s for modern, quieter and safer VLJs. The public will love them and Air Taxi outfits will pop up all over the country. This will also allow the young eager 1000 hr CFI a chance to fly a modern jet powered a/c and gain experience for the next step in his career. Also, professional type operators/ owners(Drs. lawayers, business owners) will be running to VLJ salesmen to be the first person to own a VLJ at their country club. No more Bonanzas, Barons, or Malibus for them.

Or option:
2. There will probably be a rash of accidents and incidents w/ low time VLJ pilots and the insurance rates will sky rocket. Plus, these aircraft will be a log jam at the lower FLs.

Your thoughts,

 

[AerroMatt]

VLJs are being discussed on the General board. So what do you guys think about the VLJs that will be coming out soon?

1. They will revolutionize the small mom/pop 135 industry. Companies will be parking 25 yr. old Aztecs, King Airs, and 310s for modern, quieter and safer VLJs. The public will love them and Air Taxi outfits will pop up all over the country. This will also allow the young eager 1000 hr CFI a chance to fly a modern jet powered a/c and gain experience for the next step in his career. Also, professional type operators/ owners(Drs. lawayers, business owners) will be running to VLJ salesmen to be the first person to own a VLJ at their country club. No more Bonanzas, Barons, or Malibus for them.

Or option:
2. There will probably be a rash of accidents and incidents w/ low time VLJ pilots and the insurance rates will sky rocket. Plus, these aircraft will be a log jam at the lower FLs.

Your thoughts,

A lot of both options will happen. Doesn't anyone remember why the Bonanza was nicknamed the Doctor killer? Not to mention the 1000hr CFI getting into the same mess (in over his head)>

 

[2000flyer]

The Honeywell-Dassault suit was settled last month.

There are supposed to be a few VLJ's in BCT at the regional conference tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing a few of them.

 

[Groundpounder]

The Eclipse is going to be at Banyan FXE either this weekend or the next.

 

[banned username 2]

"Adam Aircraft's A700, for example, sells for $2 million and has more sophisticated avionics in the cockpit than a $40 million Gulfstream G5, said company president Joe Walker. "

It's statements like these why they tell you to put the CRACK pipe down.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060118/ap_on_bi_ge/little_jets_1

Actually this is true, the SPZ-8500 in the G-V certainly isn't leading edge technology... However the PlaneView system in the G-350/G-450/G-500/G-550 is quite revolutionary... www.gulfstreamplaneview.com

 

[CelticCitation]

Just wondering what the next step would be for the CFI to VLJ would be. If they are successful, they would probably replace a lot of other flying. I personally think insurance rates will make it hard for the 2500 hour flight instructor to get in one, and the 135 companies will be buying up the cheap Citations, King Airs, Cheyennes, etc. that the VLJs will make worth a whole lot less.

 

[HawkerF/O]

I disagree with you guys. I have yet to hear of a VLJ with Auto-throttles, EVS, HUD, WX Radar that can be set for 2 different displays (Sweeps for the LH side, then Sweeps something completely different for the RH side) etc. The EFIS displays might be a little more advanced, but an all around avionics package: No way.

The Honeywell makes you think. No doubt about it. SOmetimes you even have to dig a little to find the info you are looking for, but at the end of the day, that's a pretty good all around suite. My Honeywell experience is in the Hawker 800A/XP, not the GV, and I'm sure it's watered down compared to what the GV has.

 

[HawkerF/O]

AS for the CFIs in the VLJs, it's not going to be as easy as some might think; for several reason, the main one being the type rating they will not possess. Here are the mins in order to just supervise a pilot getting "time in type" like these guys do now in a new Baron, KA, etc:

• Type rated in at least one jet aircraft
• 5000 hours total time
• 3000 PIC
• 1500 PIC turbojet
• Previous experience as a flight instructor, check airman, or designated pilot examiner in turbojets
• Able to work with pilots of all levels of experience
• Operational experience into high density terminal areas
• Knowledgeable and experienced in the use of aviation resources
• A record of outstanding airmanship
• A willingness to support Eclipse Aviation operating policies
• Satisfactory training performance at Eclipse Aviation and United Airlines Flight Center

The manufactures are trying to keep a tight reign on who operates their aircraft even after they are sold. I think a loophole is going to be a guy that buys a Eclipse then sells it right away. Unless there is a "1st right of refusal" in the buyer's agreement, the guy that just bought the jet 2nd hand just needs to go get typed (if he is already typed in a jet their will be no restriction on his ticket) and then he is free to go do as he wishes with the aircraft and legally wouldn't be bound by the manufacture's training/supervision restrictions. I think these aircraft are too much for a owner KA or Baron or even a Citation pilot to just transition into. Those swept wings, speed, and not truly understanding the systems operations are going to get a lot of those guys in lots of trouble. When coming out of altitude and you pull the power back on a KA or Baron, it slows down, not so on these slippery jets. You can go down or slow down, but you can't do both. I think these VLJ pilots are going to be too dependent on the Avionics, and when the A/P signs off in IMC, they'll be too busy trying to figure out why and how to get it back on line instead of flying the airplane, and it's going to rain VLJ.

 

[AA717driver]

I think these aircraft are too much for a owner KA or Baron or even a Citation pilot to just transition into. Those swept wings, speed, and not truly understanding the systems operations are going to get a lot of those guys in lots of trouble. When coming out of altitude and you pull the power back on a KA or Baron, it slows down, not so on these slippery jets. You can go down or slow down, but you can't do both. I think these VLJ pilots are going to be too dependent on the Avionics, and when the A/P signs off in IMC, they'll be too busy trying to figure out why and how to get it back on line instead of flying the airplane, and it's going to rain VLJ.

I agree but you can bet your a$$ they won't be marketed like this. The salesmen are gonna hit the Doctor's conventions and Bar Assoc. meetings like a ton of bricks. The "my penis is bigger than your penis" mentality is more prevalent than ever among the monied in this country and they are licking their chops. JMO.TC

 

[GVFlyer]

"Adam Aircraft's A700, for example, sells for $2 million and has more sophisticated avionics in the cockpit than a $40 million Gulfstream G5, said company president Joe Walker. "

It's statements like these why they tell you to put the CRACK pipe down.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060118/ap_on_bi_ge/little_jets_1

God bless Joe. I always enjoyed working with him and I've been out to his factory at Centennial several times. With the assistance of VP Flight Ops Bill Watters, they're making a quality product.

You have to parse Joe's words carefully. He said the $40 million dollar "G5" (which Gulfstream hasn't made since October 2003), not the $48 million G550 with Planeview, Cursor Control Devices and enhanced MCDU's which is Gulfstream's current offering.

As an aside, there are many avionics devices offering sophisticated features that have been rejected by Gulfstream because they cannot pass the company's rigorous EMC testing. During development the G550 went through extensive Multiple-Burst and Multiple Stroke Lightening testing and High Intensity Radiated Field Testing and is engineered to meet RTCA/DO-160P/E standards as well as Mil Std - 461E/ 462D standards (because governments and militaries are the largest purchaser of Gulfstream jets).

GV

 

[2000flyer]

I just got in from the NBAA regional in BCT today and had a chance to looke at the Eclipse and Phenom. The Exclipse reminded me of a Cherokee Six with jet engines. Avionics looked great and has side-stick controls. Folks in the backseats better be on the small side. I was disappointed in the interior as it really did look Piper-ish. I've seen turbine Malibu's and Caravans with much better interiors. You won't believe how freakin small that engine is. I swear a hummingbird would FOD out the engine.

The Phenom 100/300 looks great for a small jet. Again, avionics are superb. The 100/300 retain the EMB "rams horn" yoke. In both aircraft, a lot of time and energy are going to have to be spent learning and keeping up with them. For the guy that flys 50 hours a year, he's either in trouble or won't use whats in front of him to its fullest extent. I really hope the FAA mandates something along the lines of a type rating style school for the pilot's who fly them.

I agree with most opinions here that the doc's and dicks (lawyers) are going to have their hands full as any low experience pilot would in a sophisticated jet.

Off to La Bella Macchina to check out the Ferrari's!

2000Flyer

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

1,000 gulfstreams

(because governments and militaries are the largest purchaser of Gulfstream jets).

GV

Are you sure about that?

Or do you mean that they are the largest SINGLE purchaser of Gulfstreams. I can't believe that they have half of the units built. That would be alot!

Ace

 

[GVFlyer]

Are you sure about that?

Or do you mean that they are the largest SINGLE purchaser of Gulfstreams. I can't believe that they have half of the units built. That would be alot!

Ace

You are right in your assumption and rethinking my statement, even that isn't correct anymore as NetJets has purchased over 50 large cabin Gulfstreams.

GV

 

[blzr]

has anyone used the Honeywell GNS? It is the most worthless gns out there. we changed ours to universal a couple of years ago, it alot more strait foreward and simple. If GV's are all honeywell, more power to ya.

 

[HawkerF/O]

has anyone used the Honeywell GNS? It is the most worthless gns out there. we changed ours to universal a couple of years ago, it alot more strait foreward and simple. If GV's are all honeywell, more power to ya.

The GNS and NZ series of FMSs are at in 2 different playing arenas. It's truly like apples and oranges. I do not even think a GNS would be compatible with anything newer than a GIV. It's my understanding the SPZ suite is required to use Honeywell FMSs. For the most part, I think people think of GNSs as GNSs and not Honeywells.

 

[suen1843]

Looks like we have to replace "Bonanza" with "VLJ" :

If it wasn't for the VLJ, this country would be overrun with doctors and lawyers!

 

[G4G5]

When I was part timing I flew a GIV (with SPZ8400) that had a Global GNS installed in the #3 position. It looked to me like the installation would work in a GV. It has to be better then that losertrack that Gulfstream offers to those who don't purchase the third FMS.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The VLJs have much better avionics and weather stuff than the Bonanazas. THe VLJs have much more reliable engines. THe VLJs can climb much higher than the Bonanzas, getting them out of most weather.

Avionics+:
THe Eclipse is VERY integrated, and the avionics work very well together, according to what I've read. If u have an engine failure in an Eclipse, the Eclipse HQ will no about it in about 30 secs. via sattelite downlink. The electronic monitoring in conjunction with preventative MX is going to be awesome. None of the VLJs have artificial vision stuff in them like the Gulfstreams do.

Cliff
YIP