Hypothetical question for ASA pilots

[goodpilotithink]

"the ASA and Comair MEC did work together and presented a unified front to management. Remember that ASA said "NO" to concessions for airplanes - in part to support their Comair brothers."


Too bad Comair did not hold the line to honor your support.

Oh come on. WE held the line and got a much better contract only to have numerous Regional pilot groups stab us in the back. The first time we turned down concessions for growth was a joke. They NEVER thought we would go for it. It was designed to fail so they could put the aircraft with ASA, where they were destined to go no matter what.

They were wanting us to totally strip our contract back to where it was before the strike, knowing full well we would not do it. Now the second time they ask for a "freeze", and that made more sense, since it was apparent no one was going to pass us up .

Say what you will but we have done more to help the pilots who fly small jets than any one. It was a wasted effort in a way because of what the likes of Mesa, Cha. did when we handed them the bat.

Fly Safe

 

[Plug]

A vocal anti-union pilot is advancing a theory that ALPA will be very unhealthy for SkyWest pilots. His theory is that if SkyWest pilots certified ALPA that the ASA MEC would file a single carrier petition to force integration. He further postulates that the petition would be granted and integration would take place with terms unfavorable to SkyWest pilots.

So here's a few questions for ASA folks:

Do you think your leadership would pursue integration if SkyWest pilots certified ALPA? Any particular reason why or why not?

Would you personally hope for integration?

Would integrating be good in the long term as it would prevent the possibility of whipsawing?

I'd appreciate it if we can limit responses to folks that actually fly for ASA.

Dave,

I think our MEC would pursue integartion due to the fact that we have seen first hand the affects of whipsaw and Skywest management now has a huge whipsaw. Integartion would benefit both groups from the stand point of alleviating the whipsaw and offer more options for crew bases and trip selection.

As you may have gathered I am all for an integration because I like to think the bigger the pilot group the better. Now the "million dollar" question: How would we integrate? Good question and I don't think anyone has the answer right now. We do know that there are 2 extremes Staple and DOH. A staple would result in a winfall for the Skywest group and DOH would be somewhat of winfall for the ASA pilot group so neither is a viable option, but there is PLENTY of middle ground there. So over the next few months lets keep the "Staple vs. DOH" fight to a minimum and actually come up with some good ideas. I look forward to working with the folks at Skywest unless Jetblue or CAL call then Cya. ;-)

Cheers

 

[Texx]

"the ASA and Comair MEC did work together and presented a unified front to management. Remember that ASA said "NO" to concessions for airplanes - in part to support their Comair brothers."


Too bad Comair did not hold the line to honor your support.

Yes you are correct but it was not a formal request for single carrier status to the NMB.

 

[Texx]

CS did exactly what he was supposed to "By Law". He has bent over backwards for us on MLOA and takes care of issues we may have while away. An individuals orders start on a certain date and end on a certain date, period. Any days off or GDO's are gone if they were after the start day or before the return date. This same thing happened to me as I was below mins for the month. He prorated the month and deducted the rest as I left on the 8th of the month. It was no big deal. The only thing the company must pay you for (if you desire) is vacation owed or expenses such as moving which I deffered for my return. It may not seem fair, but it is.

The point is and it was not "By Law" that on your "scheduled days off" the company dock you 2.75 hours because you were not availible to be junoir manned. We are speaking of your min days off. I do agree that they are not required to make sure, after your final sch, to give you the required 10 days off per the contract.

 

[viper548]

A MIL pilot gives the company his orders at the begining of the year for MIL leave with specific dates. Later in the year some of these dates fall on his days off. So the CP docks him 2 days of pay because "he was unavailible to be junior manned."

That's messed up! I don't request my mil days until I have my schedule. If i'm scheduled to have the day off, I don't request it off.

 

[viper548]

Dave,

I think our MEC would pursue integartion due to the fact that we have seen first hand the affects of whipsaw and Skywest management now has a huge whipsaw. Integartion would benefit both groups from the stand point of alleviating the whipsaw and offer more options for crew bases and trip selection.

As you may have gathered I am all for an integration because I like to think the bigger the pilot group the better. Now the "million dollar" question: How would we integrate? Good question and I don't think anyone has the answer right now. We do know that there are 2 extremes Staple and DOH. A staple would result in a winfall for the Skywest group and DOH would be somewhat of winfall for the ASA pilot group so neither is a viable option, but there is PLENTY of middle ground there. So over the next few months lets keep the "Staple vs. DOH" fight to a minimum and actually come up with some good ideas. I look forward to working with the folks at Skywest unless Jetblue or CAL call then Cya. ;-)

Cheers

I agree. I'm more concerned about whipsawing than integration. The integration probably wouldn't be a staple or DOH, and would be pretty fair to everyone involved.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The point is and it was not "By Law" that on your "scheduled days off" the company dock you 2.75 hours because you were not availible to be junoir manned. We are speaking of your min days off. I do agree that they are not required to make sure, after your final sch, to give you the required 10 days off per the contract.

Texx: You are right and the idea that ASA takes pay away from you for being off, on your scheduled day off, because they can not junior man you is so unfair that it is about the same as picking someone's pocket while they are laying in the ditch bleeding to death after getting hit by a car. This Company really has no shame and dammit if I'm not going to vote to shut it down when given the opportunity.

The ASA management team WILL be gone when this is over. If it means the airline goes away - so be it. If SkyWest wants to avoid a strike the first thing they can do is start handing out dismissal memos at the G.O.

Second issue - why would any ASA pilot roll over on DOH? We have the same equipment, we are trained and flying in our position. Paychecks are just about the same averaged across the board. Put up long fences if you want, but don't touch my seniority.

~~~^~~~

 

[viper548]

Second issue - why would any ASA pilot roll over on DOH? We have the same equipment, we are trained and flying in our position. Paychecks are just about the same averaged across the board. Put up long fences if you want, but don't touch my seniority.

~~~^~~~

Why should ASA pilots come out ahead of SkyWest pilots?

 

[Snecma]

Why should ASA pilots come out ahead of SkyWest pilots?

DOH is the only way to ensure that no pilots come out ahead of any others.

 

[sweptback]

Second issue - why would any ASA pilot roll over on DOH? We have the same equipment, we are trained and flying in our position. Paychecks are just about the same averaged across the board. Put up long fences if you want, but don't touch my seniority.

I agree with this. If we do merge lists (which is doubtful), DOH is a must.

The reason I am a chest-pounding DOH fighter is not because of bases or "stealing senority" for a quick upgrade in DEN or what have you, but is because of furloughs. If by some magic the pilot lists are integrated, and the 40 airplanes that Delta has on their books disappears with no replacements, I don't want any "technically-senior-but-got-hosed-in-the-integration" ASA pilot furloughed while a practically newhire SKYW guy keeps his seat.

 

[twott driver]

Surely the most fair way of doing it would be to work out everyone's position as a percentage of each seniority list, and then combine the 2 lists, ensuring that each person remains in the the corresponding percentile position of the combined list?

As for someone displacing another from a base, that is pretty straight-forward.......the only way to move base is if a position opens, and then it is awarded on seniority, no different to how it's done now.

Seems like the way to go, but then again there's sure to be someone opposed. It's the nature of the game I suppose.........

 

[viper548]

I believe a percentile integration would be fair to all pilots. DOH would favor ASA because SkyWest has had a very recent hiring boom. I have 400 below me, and I've been at SkyWest for 9 months. I figure I'm at about the 81st percentile. I don't think ASA has hired as much recently, so it would be a greater proportion of ASA pilots going in front of me instead of behind me. What I care the most about is getting the base I want as an FO, upgrade time and getting the base I want as a Capt. Fences help there, but they wouldn't stay up forever.

I don't know anyone at SKW that favors DOH.

 

[viper548]

Some other good suggestions i've heard:

-Integrate ASA pilots with SKW Delta connection side (SLC/ATL) any ASA pilots CHOOSING a UAL domicile get stapeled at that UAL domicile.

-Allow all SKW pilots 2 bids, ie (SMF CRJ FO and SMF CRJ CA) All SKW pilot bids will be filled before ASA pilots can transfer. This prevents an ASA pilot from transfering to SBA CRJ CA in front of a SKW pilot that chose to work at SKW because they wanted to be based in SBA. (A 5 year fence wouldn't work in this case)

-Keep seperate until the whipsaw begins. Hopefully the company will wait a while before they try this.

 

[SSDD]

Viper,

Actually there are quite a few Skywest pilots who favor DOH. Maybe not among the recently hired, but there are a lot. It seems like you have your carreer at SKW all mapped out, but a reality check might be in order. Everyone is going to have to give a little. Another thing to keep in mind is that Skywest Airlines did not buy ASA, Skywest INC. the holding company did. A small but extremely important difference.

Also what's floating around the crew lounges and what SGU has in mind are completely different scenarios.

Take care.

 

[Texx]

That's messed up! I don't request my mil days until I have my schedule. If i'm scheduled to have the day off, I don't request it off.

The MIL pilots here have learned the hard way.