Huge USAirways RJ Order !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[68pilot]

Have to agree with cocknbull.
I didn't get into this career to top out at 65,000 bucks a year doing 9 legs a day. Do pax like RJ's? Sure, better than Saabs, but not better than 737's. All this RJ crap is an attempt by Airline management to devide and conquer us (pilots).
A NWA DC 9-10 holds 74 pax, a Mesaba Avro holds 69 (but is certified for a hundred). Freedumb Air is now flying 90 seat RJ's, while America West is cancelling orders for A-318's. Even with AWA's traditionally low payscale, I'm sure AWA's mainline rates look like a king's ransome for a Freedumb or Mesa guy.
The RJ's are fun to fly, but unless the proliferation of them is checked, or payscales are brought waaaaaaay up, we will only be flying them for fun, because we sure won't be able to make a decent living doing it.

My $.02 worth ($.0135 after taxes)

68pilot

 

[B1900DFO]

If only the majority of pilots felt the way you do we wouldn't be in this godawful mess.

 

[reepicheep]

Ok, brighten me up on this, but US Airways gang of wizards are thinking $4.3 billion RJs are going to keep the company from sinking into CH11 again? It doesn't make sense to essentially obtain a vehicle that only supplements the majority of US Airways flying... Case in point, they already fly mostly shorter haul routes with the exception of a few European and Carribean routes. This move is only going to dilute mainline flying. My gut feeling is that in a couple years, the RJ flying is going to peak and US Airways will be in an akward position with all of these RJ orders and an improving industry.

The fundamental difference with US is that the wizards in Crystal City are planning on using them for the mainline. The EMB-175's are not turboprop replacements to augment feed but rather will be 737 replacements and you'll see them on PIT-MSP and PHL-JAX legs. Smeagol has already planted the seeds with his recent remarks about scaling back the mainline. Expect more ultimatums and arm-twisting and the MEC will cave in yet again because "at least I've still got a job" is the mantra of the USAir pilot.

 

[Guppiedriver]

From aroundtheblock,

.

Though Southwest is thriving during these troubled times, and I'm I'm happy for them, they still do not operate at the level in the industry as the other major airlines. To say that "if RJ's were the answer Southwest would be all over them" is not correct for Southwest. They do not need them for their smaller route structure. Southwest did recreate the wheel in aviation, but it is still on a smaller machine.

Granted, Southest is a different animal. But, to insinuate that Southwest does not need RJ'S because they don't operate at the level that the other majors operate (whatever that means), is just plain ludicrous.

The RJ infusion, to a small extent is allowing carriers to maintain a market presense. However, to a larger extent it is a divide and conquer management ploy.

All of those RJ's that the "other major carriers" are adding to the fray will be competing head to head with Southwest and Jet Blues 737's and A320's. The market will demand that ticket prices be similar. The passengers will have a tough decision to make, not. The economics of it will decide who survives.

 

[aroundtheblock]

I agree management uses RJ's or other commuter aircraft as bargaining chips to put competing commuters at the same carrier against each other, and that it is wrong. My main point to your post was that just because Southwest wasn't all over something doesn't make it a bad idea. Southwest is thriving during this downturn in the economy, and I'm happy for them. So are other discount places, where people try to save a few bucks: Walmart, Target, and the corner Sack-and-Save.

 

[RUhiring?]

distribution

Perhaps I am missing something here, but why would US Airways purchase an aircraft, and then let Mesa, or any other airline operate it? If the money is being spent by U, then wouldn't you think the planes would go to either Mid Atlantic, or one of the other WO's? JO is shrewd, but I doubt he could get U to buy his airplanes for him.


Anyone have insight on this?

 

[XUSAir]

"You can't shrink an airline into profitablity"......Steven Wolf

These idiots don't have a clue what they are doing. They haven't had an original idea yet. They copy a successful business model and show how to make it fail. Look at Metrojet. Unless USAir gets some innovative, forward thinking management, I believe this is doomed also. It is sad that a few people can walk away very rich while ruining a fine airline.

 

[Guppiedriver]

I agree management uses RJ's or other commuter aircraft as bargaining chips to put competing commuters at the same carrier against each other, and that it is wrong. My main point to your post was that just because Southwest wasn't all over something doesn't make it a bad idea. Southwest is thriving during this downturn in the economy, and I'm happy for them. So are other discount places, where people try to save a few bucks: Walmart, Target, and the corner Sack-and-Save.

We are talking about the massive RJ order that US Airways just announced. Citing this example, yes it is a very bad idea.

Please explain to me how this idea will work. Not just for Airways, but for any major airline. If small jets were the answer 737-500's, 717's, and A318's would be the hottest selling jets in the industry. The small jet growth explosion is a tool for airline management to control labor costs, period.

 

[beytzim]

Someone asked earlier if people would prefer a 737,a320 or RJ to fly on. The answer to MOST people is: whichever is cheapest. Despite what you may think, SW is NOT the cheapest. Jetblue has too few aircraft (right now, anyway) to have a REAL impact on routes.

The future is RJs. Change or Die.

 

[stillaboo]

Someone asked earlier if people would prefer a 737,a320 or RJ to fly on. The answer to MOST people is: whichever is cheapest. Despite what you may think, SW is NOT the cheapest. Jetblue has too few aircraft (right now, anyway) to have a REAL impact on routes.

The future is RJs. Change or Die.

The 170 has seats that are wider than a 737 (and likely an Airbus too) as well as a double bubble fuselage to allow full height ailes. From a passenger standpoint, my understanding is the ERJ 170's will be the most comfortable coach seats out there (without having sat in the seats, one must rely on Embreaer's marketing dept, which MIGHT be slightly biased )

Operationally is a different story. Low ticket prices demand high load factors on 73's and 318's. Load factors have gotta be in the mid 80's at least to support RJ's on the same routes. Trying to use an ERJ 170 to replace a 73, 75, or 318, 320 etc. might prove as difficult as copying WN's formula. We will soon find out.

-Boo!

 

[BigFlyr]

Originally posted by Guppiedriver RJ's are not the answer. They are a temporary bandaid in a wounded economy. If RJ's were the answer Southwest would be all over them.

Well said! Furthermore, if USAirways becomes a predominately RJ driven company they will no doubt be sealing their own coffin since they'll be competing with other companies that offer full size cabin 737's and A320's... IMHO!

 

[mkelley63]

Huge RJ Order

Hi Guys & Gals,
I've worked within the USAirways system for the last 13 years. I was at Henson/Piedmont and USAirways (Metrojet). My take on all of this is that USAirways is unintentionally (maybe even intentionally) morphing into it's former self.
What I mean by this is jet-Piedmont/USAir flew(with much success) 68 seat jets in the form of the Fokker F.28. We had a little operation dubbed "The Florida Shuttle" (For the record Henson deHavilland DHC-8's were also used) that did quite well.
My point is that this size aircraft ( 70 seats ) flying within the USAirways system is not unheard of, and can make money.
Take Care All,
M.K.