Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

HUGE loss for United

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva][SIZE=-1]UAL Loss Widens
Amid Costs Tied
To Restructuring
By ILAN BRAT
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
November 1, 2005

United Airlines's parent, UAL Corp., reported a third-quarter net loss of $1.77 billion, its largest ever quarterly loss, as bankruptcy-related expenses offset its efforts to shift to more profitable routes, cut costs and emerge from Chapter 11 as a more nimble competitor.

The Chicago-based airline, the second-largest U.S. carrier by traffic after AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, said reorganization items reduced its bottom line by $1.84 billion, primarily from noncash expenses on the rejection of aircraft. UAL said it is common for a company to rack up losses associated with its reorganization as it approaches its exit from Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, and said it expects a large noncash gain after it emerges from bankruptcy protection, also stemming from accounting factors.

United, which filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2002, hopes to emerge in February as an efficient, competitive airline. In the latest quarter, United said, employee costs declined 21% from a year earlier, and its aircraft obligations fell 35%. However, fuel expenses rose 37% to $1.1 billion, meaning fuel has leapfrogged labor as its largest single expense.

United's results amount to $15.26 a share, compared with a net loss of $274 million, or $2.38 a share, in the year-earlier quarter, which included $115 million in reorganization items.

In the latest quarter, revenue climbed 8.1% to $4.66 billion from $4.31 billion a year earlier.

United has been cutting back on its domestic operations to put greater emphasis on international flights, which are less competitive and which allow airlines to charge higher fares. The company said mainline unit revenue, or the money brought in for each seat flown per mile, jumped 11% to 9.6 cents from 8.6 cents in last year's third quarter. In September alone, United's mainline unit revenue jumped 15% compared with September 2004.

The airline said it reduced the number of aircraft in its fleet by 10% compared with the year-earlier period. Seat capacity declined 5%, while the percentage of seats filled rose to 83.9% from 82.1%. The company expects its fourth-quarter mainline capacity to be down 3% from 2004's fourth quarter.

Glenn Tilton, UAL's chief executive officer, said that the improved results reflected cost controls. "The results we are reporting make it clear that we have done well this quarter in overall cost control, especially given the significant reduction in capacity."

Write to Ilan Brat at [email protected] [/SIZE][/FONT]
 
Awesome quarter?

United Airlines's parent, UAL Corp., reported a third-quarter net loss of $1.77 billion, its largest ever quarterly loss

United said, employee costs declined 21% from a year earlier.

The airline said it reduced the number of aircraft in its fleet by 10% compared with the year-earlier period.
 
Last edited:
ChperpltII said:
United posted a 1.77B loss for the quarter. It's not listed in the original post, but they also took a 1.8B non cash aircraft restructuring charge which is apparently normal for a company about to exit CH11.

In reality, they had an operating profit for quarter... I believe it was 165 million.

I think everyone else (those still hurting) should be worried if UAL can break even, or make a small profit with the fuel prices today..

everyone keeps skipping this information, and keeps posting,

OMGodzilla,

1.77
$B$I$L$L$I$O$N$

loss!!!
 
G4G5 said:
Awesome quarter?

United Airline's parent, UAL Corp., reported a third-quarter net loss of $1.77 billion, its largest ever quarterly loss

United said, employee costs declined 21% from a year earlier.

The airline said it reduced the number of aircraft in its fleet by 10% compared with the year-earlier period.

"Reorganization items were primarily driven by $1.7 billion in non-cash aircraft rejection charges. It is common for the results of operations of companies progressing through Chapter 11 to be impacted by non-cash charges related to their reorganization, especially as restructuring work nears completion. Charges based on the claims of our creditors are recorded at the amount expected to be allowed by the court. However, as shown in our Plan of Reorganization, these claims are expected to be settled at exit for a minor fraction of the amount of the charges recorded. Looking forward, the company is expected to record a large gain at exit in 2006 when these claims are settled for less than the amounts originally recorded. It is important to note that this is a matter of accurate accounting, and that neither the aircraft rejection charges recorded at this time nor the gain expected to be recorded at exit in 2006 have any significant impact on the company's cash position."


Man you don't let up do you? UAL bashing has become an art form for you.

80% of your posts are anti-UAL, give yourself a break.

UAL has issues, no argument there. Were trying, day in day out we work in an environment where "almost" everybody is against us. From our "fellow" ALPA brethren petitioning there representatives against our PBGC loan request too competetors unwilling to raise ticket prices in the hopes of driving us out of business. Remember we lead or went along with almost all fare raises, and you know who, always tried to ca bash them, playing the who can bleed longest.......Well payback a B*tch isn't it.

Well where still here, trogging away.....

Thanks for your............. support?
 
koko nw said:
"Reorganization items were primarily driven by $1.7 billion in non-cash aircraft rejection charges. It is common for the results of operations of companies progressing through Chapter 11 to be impacted by non-cash charges related to their reorganization, especially as restructuring work nears completion. Charges based on the claims of our creditors are recorded at the amount expected to be allowed by the court. However, as shown in our Plan of Reorganization, these claims are expected to be settled at exit for a minor fraction of the amount of the charges recorded. Looking forward, the company is expected to record a large gain at exit in 2006 when these claims are settled for less than the amounts originally recorded. It is important to note that this is a matter of accurate accounting, and that neither the aircraft rejection charges recorded at this time nor the gain expected to be recorded at exit in 2006 have any significant impact on the company's cash position."


Man you don't let up do you? UAL bashing has become an art form for you.

80% of your posts are anti-UAL, give yourself a break.

UAL has issues, no argument there. Were trying, day in day out we work in an environment where "almost" everybody is against us. From our "fellow" ALPA brethren petitioning there representatives against our PBGC loan request too competetors unwilling to raise ticket prices in the hopes of driving us out of business. Remember we lead or went along with almost all fare raises, and you know who, always tried to ca bash them, playing the who can bleed longest.......Well payback a B*tch isn't it.

Well where still here, trogging away.....

Thanks for your............. support?

Maybe it's me but with the above report I just don't see how coming out of CH11 in Feb 2006 makes any sense?

If you look at the associated chart that goes along with the above WSJ article (either look in tomorrows paper or get an on line subscription) The loss graph is pretty ugly. The trend defiantly indicates a larger loss for next quarter.

The winter months are traditionally the worst and fuel costs traditionally run the highest. Yet some how coming out in 2/06 makes sense with a business plan that revolves around $50 oil?

I am not down on the UAL employees just the mgt team. Tilton has done very little to impress me, I feel for you folks but bad mgt is still bad mgt.
 
Last edited:
Are you guys retarded? How many times does this have to be said: UNITED HAD A PAPER LOSS, NOT A NEGATIVE CASHFLOW PROBLEM!!!!!

Before exiting BK, there are always going to be paper charges to the balance sheet that don't bear any resemblance to actual cashflow. Without these paper charges to the balance sheet, UAL would have made a profit. Things are actually looking up at UAL. I'm surprised.
 
G4G5 thank you, I believe our exclusivity rights might have something to do with the feb 06 get out of jail date, I honestly am not sure. The $50b predication is troublesome.

It was hard to attract "good" talent to a sinking Titanic, the line applications were a bit slim :). Believe me there's no love lost between the employee's and Mr. Tilton....BUT he was handed a big plate of %&@* upon arriving. He has cut costs, yes on the back's of employees and and retiree's no doubt, but the non-labor costs have been drastically altered as well, remember the 1113C's and how long those took with our aircraft leasors? The fights with various city airport agencies and there fee's....ect.

I believe his primary purpose was to turn UAL back into a viable business entity....has he done it? Only time will tell.

By the way, I doubt he will be here much past Feb 06. Hopefully we'll get someone more engaged in running an airline vice turning it around.

cheers
 
so funny!!!! LOL Too bad United is going to survive. Weird "MAJOR" board you have here. Seems to be a bunch of regional folks pretending to be "REAL" pilots.
 
FutureTEDpilot said:
Keep your BAD KARMA! Some of us plan to help rebuild UAL and the Pilot contract, we will talk in 2009 and see who the smart guy is ok?

--Peace out

You're kidding, right? You expect UAL to recover from a huge Ch.11 process owing the NYC bankers billions and not owning an asset that isn't totally encumbered virtually overnight? (5 years is "overnight" in this business.)

You need to go back and look at how damaging Ch. 11 is to companies and how long it takes to recover (for the very few that do) to even a decent financial position, let alone one that will provide for raises for employees.

If you have 20 years to go in your career AND UAL is stunningly successful upon emergence AND the airline business recovers, you might see a decent contract.

If history is any indicator, you will be lucky to not continue taking concessions right up to the next filing.

Good luck.TC
 
Another bright note buried in the lengthy press release: unit revenue for September 2005 increased a whopping 15% year over year. That's incredible revenue performance.
 
It's really not that impressive. AMR proves that it can be done outside of CH11 too. Tilton needs ch11 to get his 15%.

http://cdn.news.aol.com/a/aUpdated: 01:17 PM EDT
AMR Corp 3Q Loss Narrows On Cost Cuts, High Travel Volume

[URL="http://servedby.advertising.com/site=0000695074/mnum=0000303313/genr=1/logs=0/mdtm=1129759920/bins=1/optn=1"]http://servedby.advertising.com/site=0000695074/mnum=0000303313/genr=1/logs=0/mdtm=1129759920/bins=1/optn=1[/URL][URL="http://ar.atwola.com/image/93179290/2103160281/aoladp"]http://ar.atwola.com/image/93179290/2103160281/aoladp[/URL]
FORT WORTH, Texas -(Dow Jones)- AMR Corp. (AMR), the parent of American Airlines, reported a narrower third-quarter loss despite higher fuel costs and travel disruptions from the hurricanes, as the company recorded higher volume and focused on cutting non-fuel expenses.
The company expects to post a "significant loss" in the fourth quarter at the current level of fuel prices.
The third-quarter loss narrowed to $153 million, or 93 cents a share, from $ 214 million, or $1.33 a share, a year earlier, AMR said in a press release Wednesday.
The latest loss included a charge for contract termination and a credit for the reversal of an insurance reserve. Without these items, AMR posted a loss of $95 million, or 58 cents a share, which is worse than a / First Call average estimate of a loss of 55 cents a share.
AMR, which recorded a quarterly profit for the second quarter, said it was unable to sustain profitability despite robust customer volumes because of its inability to pass on fuel-price increases to consumers. AMR said this underscores the need to accelerate its cost-cutting initiatives across the board.
AMR share recently traded 2.7% lower at $11.68.
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
10-19-051204ET
AMR's total operating revenue grew 15% in the third quarter to $5.49 billion from $4.76 billion a year earlier. Results were slightly ahead of Wall Street's estimate of $5.46 billion.
The company attributed the revenue increase to "record high load factors and significantly improved yields." The mainline load factor, or percentage of total seats filled, was 81.2%, an increase of 3.3 points from a year ago. Yield, which represents average fares, was up 8%.
Despite higher revenue, AMR said there is still a disconnect between the price of fuel and the price of air travel. To cover the increase in fuel costs over the past two years, AMR said it would have had to raise fares nearly $75 per roundtrip ticket. But the company's actual average fare increased by only $15 during this time period.
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
10-19-051215ET
AMR ended its third quarter with $3.9 billion in cash and short-term investments, including a restricted balance of $499 million.
The airline, which earlier this week said it will extend a fuel-price-driven reduction in its schedule through January, had previously predicted that hurricanes and fuel prices would have a significant impact on its third-quarter results.
In a separate release, American Airlines said it has made a $22 million contribution to its defined-benefits pension plans, bringing total contributions in 2005 to $310 million. This will be the company's last contribution to the plans for this year.
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
10-19-051228ET
AMR Corp. - Fort Worth, Texas 3rd Quar Sept. 30: 2005 2004 Revenue $5,485,000,000 $4,762,000,000 Net income a (153,000,000) b (214,000,000) Avg shrs (diluted) 164,000,000 161,000,000 Shr earns Net income a (.93) b (1.33) Figures in parentheses are losses.
a. Excluding special items, the loss would've been $95 million, or 58 cents a share.
b. Excluding special items, the loss would've been $232 million, or $1.44 a share.
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
10-19-051247ET
 
FlyUnited said:
so funny!!!! LOL Too bad United is going to survive. Weird "MAJOR" board you have here. Seems to be a bunch of regional folks pretending to be "REAL" pilots.

If u UAL makes it, Please come out humble and a little less cocky, PLEASE.

What is a REAL pilot? A 350 hour intern sitting right seat on a 767? Or a EEOC newhire who cant pass the FRASCA sim, but gets hired anyway?

Cya
 
AnimalTale said:
If u UAL makes it, Please come out humble and a little less cocky, PLEASE.

What is a REAL pilot? A 350 hour intern sitting right seat on a 767? Or a EEOC newhire who cant pass the FRASCA sim, but gets hired anyway?

Cya


Hey Animal tail.

I hear ya. But to be honest my class in 99' we had NO EEOC hires all of us had 6000+ with several types. Most of the EEOC gang was hired in the 88-89 time frame, yes I know of a few exceptions but the same applies to AA and DAL as well now. Your best bet is to worry about yourself because we will never control it anyway.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom