How to save the Airline Industry

[castle bravo]

First of all, if you would bother to look at my profile, I dont fly freight anymore pinweed. Secondly I dont know of ANY operator that uses the 80 series for freight.


Sounds like NK.

 

[capt. megadeth]

LOL,,,what, you dont feel that a guy should get paid $240,000 a year to work 8 days a month? If your an exec at a corp and you make 240 a year your a$$ workes 80 hours a week and you probably graduated from Harvard. Well good news,,,neither does natural economic forces. A re-alignment BACK into reality is underway for Legacy pilots as we speak. Your comment is probably gonna get ya blasted by some crusty, clockin a quarter mil, but livin off 30k of it because of the train reck a career in this industry leaves behind. I mean come on guys a quarter mil to yank and bank? We're not brain surgeons. If you need proof just read any thread in here.

Did you get an F in English? You don't make any sense.
Yeah, I am sure all the execs work 80 hours a week. Maybe on the golf course.

 

[capt. megadeth]

No,,,we did it to ourselves,,,well United started with the unprecedented pay scales in the 90's,,,which most airlines matched,,,now look. Complete schambles. I dont hear any of those guys on the radio now pipin up with "owner operator"

Last I checked, the pilots are not the ones who set the ticket prices well below what they should be. Yeah, we did it to ourselves. You really need to put the crack pipe down. By the way, how do you afford drugs on our pathetic pilot pay?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Unfortunately, I think the execs lose sight of this and focus on "shareholder" value and Wall Street instead.

I think it's more like, the execs lose sight of everything but their GREEDY LITTLE SELVES. They don't give a $hit about anyone but themselves.....not their employees, not their shareholders, not anyone. Look at all the slimeballs out there. Orensteen (or whatever that $hitheads name is), Kozlowski (hi, I need a $6,000 shower curtain while I am stabbing everyone in the back) and countless others. If they actually had a conscience, they would not give themselves a raise while basically blackmailing everyone else into pay cuts.

 

[SWA GUY]

The Board of Directors approve the executive's compensation package. Which is a contract negotiated and signed before the exec goes to work.

Maybe the judgement of the BOD needs to be questioned.

 

[capt. megadeth]

The Board of Directors approve the executive's compensation package. Which is a contract negotiated and signed before the exec goes to work.

Maybe the judgement of the BOD needs to be questioned.

Of course! They are all on eachother's boards.....that's how it gets approved. It's all part of their good ole boys club.

 

[Publishers]

You all are making points that are based on less than probably 2% of the total number of public companies in the United States. The average middle manager or even senior probably works about 55 hours a week and travels a good deal. He may get three weeks vacation but most do not take it all. Obviously in the NE or CA wages are above the rest of the country. Many of them take their fudiciary responsibilities quite seriously and feel some responsiibility for the welfare of their employee group.

While we can all point to the weather and danger, the fact is that a pilot of a commercial airliner has a pretty good life and is in less danger than a long haul trucker.

 

[jarhead]

Of course! They are all on eachother's boards.....that's how it gets approved. It's all part of their good ole boys club.

You are aware are you not, that board members are elected by the owners of the comapny? That would be the share holders, and nothing stops anyone from buying stock in a publicly traded company. The BOD hires the top dogs, and if they screw up, the shareholders can vote them out at the annual meeting.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I think it's more like, the execs lose sight of everything but their GREEDY LITTLE SELVES. They don't give a $hit about anyone but themselves.....not their employees, not their shareholders, not anyone. Look at all the slimeballs out there. Orensteen (or whatever that $hitheads name is), Kozlowski (hi, I need a $6,000 shower curtain while I am stabbing everyone in the back) and countless others. If they actually had a conscience, they would not give themselves a raise while basically blackmailing everyone else into pay cuts.

Now WHICH airline was it you are starting a new career with? And WHICH airline is the one you REALLY want to spend your career with?

What do you reckon THOSE "execs" would think of your "analysis"?

(Of course you will say you meant execs at "other" companies...)

 

[pipejockey]

The average middle manager or even senior probably works about 55 hours a week and travels a good deal.

People need to realize that when talking about a manager who works 55 hours a week, we are talking about the time he gets to the office in the morning to the time he leaves in the afternoon. So you can't merely compare that with how much a pilot flies. We are basically at work from the time we arrive at the airport until the time we leave the airport.

Speaking for myself, I am on duty anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day. Looking over my last trip, I was out for 22 days, and worked 12 of those days (if only cargo moved on the weekends there wouldn't be a waste of 10 days there) at an average of 14 hours on duty each day is 168 hours for the month. The manager at 55 hours a week comes out to 220 for the month, but he is at home most everynight and isn't in some noisy crappy hotel every weekend like I am. So when people say pilots don't work as much as management, I don't buy it!!

 

[WillowRunVortex]

People need to realize that when talking about a manager who works 55 hours a week, we are talking about the time he gets to the office in the morning to the time he leaves in the afternoon. So you can't merely compare that with how much a pilot flies. We are basically at work from the time we arrive at the airport until the time we leave the airport.

Speaking for myself, I am on duty anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day. Looking over my last trip, I was out for 22 days, and worked 12 of those days (if only cargo moved on the weekends there wouldn't be a waste of 10 days there) at an average of 14 hours on duty each day is 168 hours for the month. The manager at 55 hours a week comes out to 220 for the month, but he is at home most everynight and isn't in some noisy crappy hotel every weekend like I am. So when people say pilots don't work as much as management, I don't buy it!!

This thread was originaly geared toward Legacy passenger carrying airlines. I dont think you will find much argument that the freight lifestyle sucks.

 

[Clyde]

This thread was originaly geared toward Legacy passenger carrying airlines. I dont think you will find much argument that the freight lifestyle sucks.

The freight lifestyle is very good. I turned down opportunities at two major PAX carriers after being hired at Brown, and that was pre-9/11.

My criteria on choosing a career-carrier was based on past and present financial numbers, expected growth, and what type of company overall.

A good number of my friends never applied to UPS, FedEx, or ABX because they didn't want to fly the backside of the clock. The past couple of years though, I have been hearing a lot more pax carriers on center frequencies during the middle of the night than I used to hear. Also, I find it much easier to start work in the early evening and check into the hotel at 0630 than to get that 0330 wake-up call and fly all day. Plus, we don't divert because of sick or unruly passengers in the back of the airplane. You can have that glamour.

As far as my opinion goes, the freight lifestyle is a very hard one to beat in this industry. It's tough, no argument there, but the benefits, schedule, and compensation more than make up for it. The paycheck always hits the bank on time, my pension is fully-funded, and the company makes billions of dollars quarterly.

I'll take the boxes and freight any day (or night) of the week.

 

[doh]

Please tell me you are kidding......

There are not many 200K guys out there......all of that compensation is just loaded on the back end of their careers. Countless years of being away from their family......responsibility of passenger's lives and conract negotiation after negotiation...plus the whole cough routine and checkrides every six months.

You my friend are a TOOL

AMEN!

 

[WillowRunVortex]

The freight lifestyle is very good. I turned down opportunities at two major PAX carriers after being hired at Brown, and that was pre-9/11.

UPS is a very good company. But some people would consider the grave yard shift an unacceptable longterm lifestyle. Although Ive not worked for UPS, I have flown trips for them. The whole getting into SDF at midnight trying to get 3 0r 4 hours of sleep then on the crew van to the plane at 4 or 5 am thing just is not sustainable. Least it wouldnt be for me. I have lost my share of sleep getting to where I am trust me. I find I am happiest bright eyed and bushy tailed with a full nights sleep under my belt. Although I dont have a problem with early morn departures,,,I just go to bed earlier the previous eve.

 

[Clyde]

UPS is a very good company. But some people would consider the grave yard shift an unacceptable longterm lifestyle. Although Ive not worked for UPS, I have flown trips for them. The whole getting into SDF at midnight trying to get 3 0r 4 hours of sleep then on the crew van to the plane at 4 or 5 am thing just is not sustainable. Least it wouldnt be for me. I have lost my share of sleep getting to where I am trust me. I find I am happiest bright eyed and bushy tailed with a full nights sleep under my belt. Although I dont have a problem with early morn departures,,,I just go to bed earlier the previous eve.

Willow,

Noted, and very well put. The backside of the clock flying is very tough, and not for everybody. The middle of the night sort is rough and no matter how long you have been doing it, it's never the most fun out there. I have more respect for people who know it's tough and stay away from it, than for those who take the job and complain about it their whole lives. The latter can make a long trip even longer.

I do find some challenges on the pax side as well. Personally, I don't want to have to deal with the traveling public. That's just a personal preference. Second, like I mentioned earlier, I think it's tougher to start my day very early in the morning and fly all day when the traffic is heavier and the sun is in my face. You guys are not without challenges either.

But, eat right, exercise often, and sleep when you can and both types of shifts are very manageable. Personally, I think the people-pilots have it tougher than I do.