How to save the Airline Industry

ABXbooger

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I don't fly people, but I just got off a pax carrier flight...oh my god how are you guys not making more money than god?

People everywhere, carriers giving away seats...30+ people in line at the Starbucks and the gate agent announcing we should go and buy food in the terminal before we get on board because there isn't going to be enough.

Amazing...
 
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boeingdriver213

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Not just management, but maybe a little bit of greed on the part of some pilots of previous not so distant times...(here it comes)
 

Mr Zog

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It's simple, the price of a ticket from NY to London in the early 70's is the same as it is today. Meanwhile everything else costs 5 times more. Since everything else costs more and is fixed, the only place to cut costs is labor. It doesn't take an economist to figure it out.

What caused the downfall of the industry? In my opinion, "Deregulation" in a quasi-regulated industry.
 
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WillowRunVortex

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boeingdriver213 said:
Not just management, but maybe a little bit of greed on the part of some pilots of previous not so distant times...(here it comes)
LOL,,,what, you dont feel that a guy should get paid $240,000 a year to work 8 days a month? If your an exec at a corp and you make 240 a year your a$$ workes 80 hours a week and you probably graduated from Harvard. Well good news,,,neither does natural economic forces. A re-alignment BACK into reality is underway for Legacy pilots as we speak. Your comment is probably gonna get ya blasted by some crusty, clockin a quarter mil, but livin off 30k of it because of the train reck a career in this industry leaves behind. I mean come on guys a quarter mil to yank and bank? We're not brain surgeons. If you need proof just read any thread in here.
 

PCL_128

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WillowRunVortex said:
If your an exec at a corp and you make 240 a year your a$$ workes 80 hours a week and you probably graduated from Harvard.
Is that so? How many lives is that "exec" responsible for when he goes to work? How many approaches to mins in pouring rain and howling winds with 400 people sitting behind him does he do each year? How many medical exams and checkrides does he have to do each year to hang on to his livelihood? How many years did he have to make $15k/yr while "paying his dues" while he waited for that executive job?

The comparison just doesn't work. That exec may work long hours, but he does it in the comfort of his big corner office at a computer monitor all day making decisions that probably aren't really going to affect much of anything (I wonder whether we should stick with the pretzels or switch to peanuts? Hmmmm, such tough decisions.) :rolleyes: He left Harvard or Yale and probably went straight into a job that pays $50-75k/yr with full benefits and a company car. If he loses his job he'll get a severance package worth a year's salary and benefits and he'll probably pick up a job that pays even more than the previous one. Sorry, no comparison to the wide-body Captain making $200k.

I mean come on guys a quarter mil to yank and bank? We're not brain surgeons. If you need proof just read any thread in here.
You're pathetic. What's it like to go through life with such a low opinion of yourself and your profession?
 

WillowRunVortex

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Mr Zog said:
It's simple, the price of a ticket from NY to London in the early 70's is the same as it is today. Meanwhile everything else costs 5 times more. Since everything else costs more and is fixed, the only place to cut costs is labor. It doesn't take an economist to figure it out.

What caused the downfall of the industry? In my opinion, "Deregulation" in a quasi-regulated industry.
So our tax dollars are supposed to "prop-up" unprofitable business? Thats what regulation was,,,,NO THANKS!

Edit: ps: I have a hard enough time swallowing that I am now going to pay for some United guys pension.
 
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boeingdriver213

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Except the United guys pension you will be paying for is a fraction of what he spent his whole career working for.
 

WillowRunVortex

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PCL_128 said:
Is that so? How many lives is that "exec" responsible for when he goes to work? How many approaches to mins in pouring rain and howling winds with 400 people sitting behind him does he do each year? How many medical exams and checkrides does he have to do each year to hang on to his livelihood? How many years did he have to make $15k/yr while "paying his dues" while he waited for that executive job?

The comparison just doesn't work. That exec may work long hours, but he does it in the comfort of his big corner office at a computer monitor all day making decisions that probably aren't really going to affect much of anything (I wonder whether we should stick with the pretzels or switch to peanuts? Hmmmm, such tough decisions.) :rolleyes: He left Harvard or Yale and probably went straight into a job that pays $50-75k/yr with full benefits and a company car. If he loses his job he'll get a severance package worth a year's salary and benefits and he'll probably pick up a job that pays even more than the previous one. Sorry, no comparison to the wide-body Captain making $200k.



You're pathetic. What's it like to go through life with such a low opinion of yourself and your profession?
I used to use the "Im resposible for peoples lives too" thingo, seriously. But the fact is that an exec for a corp has little ol ladys as share holders that depend on him for their profit share for groceries that week,,,,same thing. and as far as the drop your pencil theory goes (office). We basically have a better office now than most execs. and no its not all we can do to keep the plane in the air. AND after 1st yr probation were Dam_ near 50,000, way more by year 5. Face it we're spoiled brats and the whole world has finally realized it.
 
J

jjetpilot

Please tell me you are kidding......

There are not many 200K guys out there......all of that compensation is just loaded on the back end of their careers. Countless years of being away from their family......responsibility of passenger's lives and conract negotiation after negotiation...plus the whole cough routine and checkrides every six months.

You my friend are a TOOL
 

PCL_128

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WillowRunVortex said:
I used to use the "Im resposible for peoples lives too" thingo, seriously. But the fact is that an exec for a corp has little ol ladys as share holders that depend on him for their profit share for groceries that week,,,,same thing.
You can't possibly believe that that's the same thing. For one thing the "little ol lady" has social security to pay for her bare essentials, so her life is certainly not in danger if that dividend check doesn't roll in. It's really simple: if that exec screws up then the TPS report doesn't get done this week; if you or I screw up then a bunch of people die. There's just no comparison.

AND after 1st yr probation were Dam_ near 50,000, way more by year 5. Face it we're spoiled brats and the whole world has finally realized it.
I don't know where you worked during your 5th year in this business, but I'm in my 5th year now and I just barely squeaked out $30k in gross last year. Not exactly spoiled if you ask me.
 

psycho

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WillowRunVortex said:
LOL,,,what, you dont feel that a guy should get paid $240,000 a year to work 8 days a month? If your an exec at a corp and you make 240 a year your a$$ workes 80 hours a week and you probably graduated from Harvard. Well good news,,,neither does natural economic forces. A re-alignment BACK into reality is underway for Legacy pilots as we speak. Your comment is probably gonna get ya blasted by some crusty, clockin a quarter mil, but livin off 30k of it because of the train reck a career in this industry leaves behind. I mean come on guys a quarter mil to yank and bank? We're not brain surgeons. If you need proof just read any thread in here.
How sad. I would expect a post like that from an airline management PR guy, although his spelling and grammar would be better. A Harvard grad working 80 hrs per week as an exec and only making 240k?? Sounds like pay scales from the 70's to me. You may want to take note of the inflation. A Harvard grad can do 240k in 5 yrs or less, and they are not exactly airline pilots. Brain surgery, hah!! Their surgical nurses pull down 200k. An Airline pilot needs 4yrs of college, 8 yrs of flying, and 25 yrs on the senority list to pull in that kind of cash.

If you want to shrink your job description down to "yank and bank", then you deserve what you get and I hope you have good first officers. May as well say a surgeon only does "cut and run".

We could probably save this industry by getting rid of unprofessional pilots like you who demean yourselves in public.
 

WillowRunVortex

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PCL_128 said:
You can't possibly believe that that's the same thing. For one thing the "little ol lady" has social security to pay for her bare essentials, so her life is certainly not in danger if that dividend check doesn't roll in. It's really simple: if that exec screws up then the TPS report doesn't get done this week; if you or I screw up then a bunch of people die. There's just no comparison.



I don't know where you worked during your 5th year in this business, but I'm in my 5th year now and I just barely squeaked out $30k in gross last year. Not exactly spoiled if you ask me.
I made 24,000 my 1st yr, (which is what I was told I would make) and 34,000 my second year. I guess I dont wanna hear the whole its a "scary thing" perspective anymore, because I dont think the public is buying it and personally its a bit overblown. I mean before 911 we were tryin to figure out if the F/A's were "IN" not wether we could use our superb piloting skills to successfully complete the flight
 

WillowRunVortex

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psycho said:
How sad. I would expect a post like that from an airline management PR guy, although his spelling and grammar would be better. A Harvard grad working 80 hrs per week as an exec and only making 240k?? Sounds like pay scales from the 70's to me. You may want to take note of the inflation. A Harvard grad can do 240k in 5 yrs or less, and they are not exactly airline pilots. Brain surgery, hah!! Their surgical nurses pull down 200k. An Airline pilot needs 4yrs of college, 8 yrs of flying, and 25 yrs on the senority list to pull in that kind of cash.

If you want to shrink your job description down to "yank and bank", then you deserve what you get and I hope you have good first officers. May as well say a surgeon only does "cut and run".

We could probably save this industry by getting rid of unprofessional pilots like you who demean yourselves in public.
No,,,we did it to ourselves,,,well United started with the unprecedented pay scales in the 90's,,,which most airlines matched,,,now look. Complete schambles. I dont hear any of those guys on the radio now pipin up with "owner operator"
 

PCL_128

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WillowRunVortex said:
No,,,we did it to ourselves,,,well United started with the unprecedented pay scales in the 90's,,,which most airlines matched,,,now look. Complete schambles. I dont hear any of those guys on the radio now pipin up with "owner operator"
Yeah, I don't suppose any of UAL's problems might be related to failed merger attempts, dozens of aircraft types, poor customer service, etc... Nah, it must be those few pilots at the top of the list making $250k/yr. :rolleyes:

Really, how much management kool-aid are they serving over at YIP nowdays? You sound more like Lorenzo than a line pilot.
 

WillowRunVortex

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PCL_128 said:
Yeah, I don't suppose any of UAL's problems might be related to failed merger attempts, dozens of aircraft types, poor customer service, etc... Nah, it must be those few pilots at the top of the list making $250k/yr. :rolleyes:

Really, how much management kool-aid are they serving over at YIP nowdays? You sound more like Lorenzo than a line pilot.
The most conservative airline in the industry is ready to file Bk. NWA,,,what is your explanation there.
 

Mr Zog

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WillowRunVortex said:
So our tax dollars are supposed to "prop-up" unprofitable business? Thats what regulation was,,,,NO THANKS!

Edit: ps: I have a hard enough time swallowing that I am now going to pay for some United guys pension.
Ohh, I am sorry. I did not know the airline industry was a free-market. Someone please send a memo to BA, Air France, Quantas, Air China, Singapore Airlines, Cathay, etc. All are subsidized by their respective governments....
 

PCL_128

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WillowRunVortex said:
The most conservative airline in the industry is ready to file Bk. NWA,,,what is your explanation there.
NWA is going to file bankruptcy just so they can get rid of pension and scope and drastically cut the pay, benefits, and working conditions of all the employee groups. Management is too lazy to fix their worthless business model. It's much easier to pay a bunch of lawyers to take them into CH. 11 so they can balance the books on the backs of the workers. Delta will soon do the same (sorry General, but I think you know it's true). For goodness sake, just look at USAir. If every pilot in the company worked for free with no benefits the airline would still be losing money. THIS IS NOT A LABOR PROBLEM. THIS IS A MANAGEMENT PROBLEM. PLEASE DEVELOPE SOME SELF-RESPECT!!!!
 
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