how to land a dash 8?!

[dash8driver64]

just a change of pace here!
i have been flying the the dash for a while now. I have been "scholled " by some cpts. that have been flying this thing for years now. More times than not they just crush the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing in!

we all know that a greaser in a dash is either luck or a wet or snow covered runway. This thing is no doubtly built in the great white north!
I think i have figured how to land this MOST of the time. I'd like to hear your input on the "tricks of the trade" on how to "paint it on"

 

[Singlecoil]

Flight beta and ground beta.

It comes down to that. I've only flown 100's and 200's, so the following applies to those.
Of course, ground beta is aft of flight idle when you are on the ground, but flight beta is a different animal. It is roughly notated on the power quadrant by one of the white arrows slightly forward of the flight idle stop.
But the best way to tell you are at flight beta is to listen. When you are cruising along, and pull the power back to the stops, power is clearly reduced, but there is still enough airspeed on the props to prevent them from going into flight beta. As you slow down to approach speed you will hear a noticable difference in the sound of the propellers. At bug speed and flight idle, you can hear the props flatten out, causing a fair amount of drag. Add a little power and this "flat" or "fine" noise decreases. Its roughly 9-11% or so. Consider that setting zero thrust. Aft of that, even though you are forward of flight idle, you are adding drag via the props. Guaranteed clunker if you land at flight idle.
On approach, you are holding 18% with flaps fifteen to stay on the glide slope. Fiddle with the power levers to hear what I am trying to convey. Pull it back until you hear the props start to "fine off". You are shooting for the point at which the change in sound just starts to begin.
Ideally you would hold 18% until starting your flare, then gradually reduce power to the point I am referring to as you raise the nose. I don't look at the ADI when I land, and neither should you, so I can't tell you how many degrees up you want to flare. Just a nice smooth roundout. Doesn't work every time, but afterall it is still a Dash-8.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Right before you flare, yell "you got the controls"
and take your hands off the yoke.


just kidding, what do I know I haven't advanced past a Dash-6

 

[eddie]

Land it flat. Don't flare with the nose real high, this is especially true in the 300. if you land too far back on the tires you will feel it. If you land ref+10 it is consistently smoother than at ref.

I only had about 3 smooth landings in the thing...so I may not be the one to offer advice.

 

[blzr]

So, the captain may say.. that landing was about a 7...... on the richter scale, or after you taxi clear of the runway may call for the after impact checklist, but don't sweat it. Blame it on MTX. That's right, they tend to overpressurie the main struts for no good reason in the 100 and 200. I love flying the 300 now because it's hard to mess up a good landing.

For the best results, just keep your attention on staying on glideslope, and don't put too much pressure on yourself to GREASE it on, or you may hear the guy in the left seat say "Want me to ask 'em for lower" as you fly 5 feet off the runway trying to get it on the ground. Relax, No one will remember that you opened the overheads on touchdown this time next week..


LATER

 

[exagony]

After I made a seldom (yeah right ) hard landing on the dash I did the only thing a great FO could do. I promptly got on the PA and apologized for the hard landing that the CAPTAIN had just made. He made the "big" bucks so he got the blame for the hard landings whether he was responsable or not. Boy the nasty looks he would get from the pax! I never let my FO's onto this trick once I upgraded though.

 

[JetProp]

Adjust power and sink rate to cross the thresold at ref+5 (use the fast/slow indicator). Leave the power set and then "drive it on" from there, as the mains touch ever so gently bring the power to flight idle. Ease the nose down and there you are...worked for me most of the time, but the rest of the time I left dents in the concrete all over the southeast!!

 

[qxeplt]

Here's my trick...

On G/S hold Vref+5 all the way down until the start of the flare.

Crossing threshold slowly reduce to about 10 to 12% torque and flare as normal.

I seem to get better landings using both hands on the yoke. You can feel the elevator control pressure better that way. Oh and don't panic and pull back to fast in the flare or you'll just pound the mains harder in the pavement.

Good luck and don't beat yourself up too much, it's just the way it is with the long landing gear, reduced ground effect, and no trailing link landing gear. Also don't try so hard to grease it and you will end up greasing it on.

Have fun...

 

[GUNRUNNER22]

Ballpark - 22% on the approach.
13% crossing the numbers and in the flare.
Follow these guidelines and you will bang em' on every time! All -8 landings blow. I have been flying the beast for about 5 years and can count on one hand how many "good" landings I have had.
Also, someone said to land flat - I have found this to be true. Also, it helps to keep your eyes closed and say to your coworker "Hold me, I'm scared."
In all sincerity, it is a great plane, built like a tank, handles the wx well... I just wish the maintenance guys wouldn't "f" with the struts.

Enough said!

 

[hermair52]

just simply continue to blame the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Canadiens

 

[qxeplt]

I've tried nose up, flat landings just about every type. Everyone has their own technique. If you go for the flat ones make sure you're a bit on the fast side of ref cause it always seems there's a certain speed where the back end kind a falls out and If you're going for the flat look and the back end drops, well you get another pounder. Again if you're slightly fast and bring it in flat you get a very nice landing. I think there's a lot of truth to MTX messing with the struts cause when we got ours new they all landed nice no matter how you dropped it in. Now most of them land like shopping carts. Still an awesome airplane though. Just remember when it comes to the pax "those who land have to stand."

 

[Fox2]

Used to love greasing these aircraft in while the best the captain could do was drop another in for landing.
The secret for me was keeping a few percent on the props. That way there's more bernouli's going over the straight wing. It also keeps the props from going flat pitch which, as someone else mentioned, is pure drag. Finally, I found that you must evenly flare. If you flare at too great a rate, you stall that great big straight wing and drop it in. It is definitely the aircraft requiring the most finesse of any I've flown.

 

[sabreliner]

LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN,

The Dash makes the most noticable noise with the props as you get the blades flat of any t-prop I've flown. When you just hear the blades start to make that noise, stop pulling the power of, and fly the airplane on.

Decent landings, but not greasers. A greaser on the Dash is a combination of a wet or (preferably) snowy runway and a large dose of pure luck. Even so, it is hands down the best airframe for the job.

I sure do miss the great Honeywell autopilot the most. The Collins one we have in the Brasilia stinks!

 

[LongBoarder]

Crashing it on....

I have to agree with the previous post.... use your ears. The second that you hear the props change in pitch(sound) stop right there! Leave that power in until you finally touch down.

And remember.... blame it on the captain when ever you can

LB

 

[CL600Pilot]

My landings in the Dash improved when I quit triing. After about 1,000 hours in the airplane I developed the "It's gonna suck regardless so why bother" attitude.

Anybody else ever play the quarter game in the Dash?? I actually got it stay up on there once. One time it hit the cockpit door so hard I thought it was going to knock it down!

As far as blaming the Canadians - be careful what you say - they're a sensitive bunch!! I was in Challenger initial in Montreal and make one joke about nothing good ever coming out of Canada - geez - I thought I was going to get lynched

CL

 

[Freight Dog]

I flew the 100. I'd come in at about Vref+15 to the ground effect carrying some power.. once in the flare about 20-30 feet off the ground start pulling the power back.

Basically, fly the thing like a big Cessna, and definitely cuss the Canadians all the way to the gate.

 

[LearLove]

I think its like the 8th wonder of the world or something. Between Allegheny and PDT and also Horizon we've got some senior guys with 15000 hours plus just in the Dash and they can't figure it out.

The only advice is just stick it on the centerline and in the touchdown zone and hope for wet or snowy runways. I have about 4000 in the 100 model and have messed around with all the methods and more discussed above but like I said its the 8th wonder of the world or something.

As for me I go in 3 week streaks. Meaning about 3 weeks of good landings followed by some time smackin' it on. With the winter we are having up north this year you can't go wrong. (snow everywhere)

One thing that I have seen is that its easier to grease on at heavier landing weights and also with a x-wind as long as your alligned when you touch down the downwind gear.

dash8driver64 - If your an allegheny guy don't take any crap from some anal MDT/ABE capt they've slapped them on worse and usually still are.

Horizon Guys

1. hows it goin with the beta backup mod?
2. where do we fax/send a res if we want to come out west?

Thanks

 

[dash8driver64]

thanks for the posts guys and gals!?
i just finished up a three day and tried to come up with some commonality. the props set to where they start "whish" is something i did without realizing it ...it is a great way to set power.
as far as flying it flat on this seems to work if your not to light.
this thing likes to be heavy. I was flying into lga yesterday and got wedged between citrus and a delta 767. i guess they had a race up from atl. so i flew it hot (140) as long as could to fit in chopped the power to f/i and made the best landing in a yr.with the crosswind on friday and being heavy it was the best senerio to paint it on. i guess. if it was snowing i would likely got the "wt on wheels" caution light before i knew it was on the ground!!! you dash guys know what i mean.

the struts are definatly part of the deal too. some just seem to land better than others.

good luck to all
i hope we can all stay employed and get our fellow pilots back in the air soon

hey horizion guys: i hear the beta mod is giving you all some big troubles. we are just about to get ours at ALG activated soon. like to hear whats going on with that!

 

[Freight Dog]

Not a Horizon guy, but former Island Air guy here, and that Beta Lockout Mod SUUUUUUUCKS!!!! If you trip it off on the ground, your engines will go into MANUAL, and you'll have to go back to the gate to reset the CB on the DC Contactor Box in the nose... it can really be a pain in the a$$. On top of that, one of our airplanes is possessed as a result of that mod. Prime example, I'm sitting at the gate with engines off doing paperwork and the GPWS goes off "Don't Sink, Don't Sink." You can just imagine the wtf looks we'd exchange up front, and not to mention the passengers and the FA. Mind you, you can't shut it up except by pulling the GPWS CB's. There are some other issues I wouldn't care to discuss here... however, that mod blows. You'll see how bad when you get it.