How much am I worth

[Rokit88]

You cringe when a cell phone goes off because it might be dispatch with a pop up. I'm gun shy of cell phones now.

So you probaly shoudn't have that machine gun ringtone then, eh??

 

[Freight Dog]

Like I said... for that salary, don't walk away - run!

I understand entry-level, but the money he's offering is not worth the hassles, not to mention he is trying to extremely lowball you.

Let's summarize this. This owner thinks you're qualified for the job otherwise I can guarantee you that he wouldn't want to hire you. Yet, he's trying to make it sound like he's doing you a favor and he's willing to pay you what you'd make at a regional. Now, he wants to work you way harder than you would at a regional, but still wants to pay you regional straight pay without the overtime you'd get for working as hard and without travel benefits. This is not even including side duties that come with being a charter pilot.

I'm not saying that there's anything bad about charter flying, quite the contrary, the flying is definitely better than the airline flying, but you can attach a dollar figure to everything we're talking about.

OK... so if he wants to negotiate a regional airline equivalent of 5 hard days off, he needs to pay you something around 5 flight hours per day average at a regional X 10 more days days of work than a regional X 150% of regular rate as overtime you'd get at a regional to get what you should be paid. Otherwise, your wage is not gonna be anywhere remotely near what the regional guys make because they'll be working a whole lot less for the same money.

When you add it all up, charter company or even a private individual need to pay substantially more than your counterpart at a regional makes in order to be competitive for pilots simply because the working conditions are different and more demanding.

Like I said, nothing wrong with working harder, but it needs to be compensated for. If I were you, I wouldn't even talk to the guy for under 40k. That'd be the starting point.

The guy wants to compare your job to a regional pilot job. I think you should compare it to NetJets, and ask him for the equivalent of NetJets+ because he expects you to fly 3 airplanes instead of just one. Bear in mind, guys on reserve at NJA can only fly up to 18 days a month with 4 hard days off. Their 1st year base pay is 46k, they only fly 1 plane, and they all get type rated in training. So what separates you from them? 300 hours according to your profile? Plus you'd fly 3 planes instead of 1? There's your answer.

Self-respect, my friend...

 

[SMOOTHRIDE]

Rokit;

Yup, I think I'll take it out back and shoot it. Serves it right for ringin' at me. :uzi:

 

[El Bucho]

Isn't there a limit to the number of types you can fly on 135? I thought it was 2. Might want to look into that too. It's either that your you can use 2 type ratings. It might just be a PIC thing too. I don't really know, would have to look it up to be certain.

 

[T-1GUY]

I say suck it up for a year. The cost of training you in three airplanes would cost you over $50,000 if you were to pay for this yourself. Go to training, work hard, get typed, get 1 year of experience under your belt.

You will have an easy time finding a $50,000 a year position in no time. While on the road, Network, Network, Network. While at training, Network, Network, Network.

I understand the pay is low, but this job could set you up for something much better.

Ask about the training. How soon will you be trained in all three? Is there per diem involved?? Ask the question "If I do a good job, and get trained in all three aircraft, will I see an increase in my compensation?" The key is "When?"

Call Simuflite or Flight Safety, Ask them the cost of this training. It might open your eyes....

 

[Publishers]

The thing that no one is bringing up is that with this fleet, the owner has more than one pilot. What are the other pilots like, what is there record been, do they get reasonable compensation, how are they treated, have they stayed there awhile, etc...???
This could be a great deal for you or a lousy one. You mentioned you were low on turbine time but we do not have enough information on the rest of your background??

 

[aussiefly]

Depends how the long the upgrade is and whether you are going to be the gopher boy as well. IMHO thats pretty darn low pay for being qual'd in 3 types.

 

[Freight Dog]

T-1... I don't know about you, but I simply don't care what the cost of training is. It makes no difference to me whatsoever. That is the cost of doing business. If the owner cannot afford to pay that, he has no business owning those airplanes.

 

[T-1GUY]

Freight Dog,

I agree that the pay is not up to par. However, if the owner pays for the training, and you accept the training, you will now have some leverage over your salary. Furthermore, if you decide to walk away after a few months, you will now have more qualifications that can help make you competitive for a higher paying job. If the owner doesnt want you to leave, you could always ask him to pay you what you are now worth.

Dont get me wrong, I think the salary sucks....But I also realize that this profession has a certain "whore yourself out" mentality.

Its a dog eat dog world and I would love to see owners like this go away... I have lost more than one job offer from an owner who couldnt pay NBAA salaries, but could drop $15,000 a night at the blackjack tables.

I say get the training, ask for more pay, and if the owner wont budge, WALK!!!

 

[Way2Broke]

Are they typing you?

 

[Publishers]

Freight Dog may know more people than I do but it seems to me that depending on the answers to the questions I posed above, this may be an opportuniity. Frankly there has only been one pilot that I have come across in the last three years that we felt storngly enough about to hire and immediately pay for training

 

[Freight Dog]

So Publishers, do you require your applicants to pay for their own training?

 

[siucavflight]

I say suck it up for a year. The cost of training you in three airplanes would cost you over $50,000 if you were to pay for this yourself. Go to training, work hard, get typed, get 1 year of experience under your belt.

Here is the thing, the training woudl not have cost him anything he gave me the book, told me to study and fly a lot of what he was claiming to be "91" trips with him and then send me to the FSDO in New york for a check ride, so the cost to him would have been minimal.

 

[T-1GUY]

Wow,

Sounds like a cheap bastard.... That said, I say Runaway!!!!

 

[G100driver]

Here is the thing, the training woudl not have cost him anything he gave me the book, told me to study and fly a lot of what he was claiming to be "91" trips with him and then send me to the FSDO in New york for a check ride, so the cost to him would have been minimal.

Run Forrest ... RUN!!!!!!

This is NOT the way to train pilots.

This owner has a serious moral delima. Not only is he cheating you, but almost or perhaps more importantly, he is cheating his clients.

Somehow, this practice of inhouse training must be put to an end. It is un-ethical.