How many in good standing at FLOPS?

[SecondSegment]

What your divorced for the 3rd time so you come here on FI and take out your frustrations?

Dude, You have 978 posts and list your position as "Bent Over". More than likely, you are talking about yourself.

That was a serious question. What are the chances of an agreement?

 

[skyismyoffice]

Dude, You have 978 posts and list your position as "Bent Over". More than likely, you are talking about yourself.

That was a serious question. What are the chances of an agreement?

Then enligten us with the answer...please include your justification as well.

 

[SecondSegment]

Then enligten us with the answer...please include your justification as well.

There is no chance what so ever that there will be an agreement with the IBT.

They will be replaced by an in-house.

 

[993_Pilot]

... What are the chances of an agreement?

I would say about 99%, because I think there is about a 1% chance that Kenn Ricci has a trick up his sleeve and would be willing to risk losing it all to get rid of the union. If that is the case, there probably isn't much that any of us can do to change it. I don't think he would be successful if he attempted it, but I still wouldn't put it past him.

A tougher question would be to try to give you an accurate time line. I think that the union is willing to come to an agreement with management, but we all know that management is stalling... and they are saving about $25,000/day by stalling, so it's no big surprise to most of us. I also think that the union negotiators and leaders are doing everything within the constraints of the RLA that are also consistent with acting in the best interest of the pilot group in their attempt to get a TA. There may be a few other tactics that could be used, but there also may be consequences to using them. What we want is a good contract with a viable and profitable company. Don't forget that we have a team of advisers helping us with the negotiations, and they will use all the legal tactics when, and only when, they are appropriate and legal. We are all frustrated with how long this is taking, but now is not the time to be second guessing your union leaders. We have come this far, and there is strength is solidarity. My suggestion would be to show some.

 

[993_Pilot]

There is no chance what so ever that there will be an agreement with the IBT.

They will be replaced by an in-house.

Who's going to lead this, you?
Why hasn't anyone approached me or anyone else I know about this "movement"?
How would it be funded without a strong national behind it?
Even Netjets, with their size, wasn't stupid enough to break away until after they had a good contract.
I thought you were ready for some serious discourse but personally I think you're either a dreamer, or more likely just spreading FUD.

 

[SecondSegment]

I love guys like this.

You throw numbers out there like you actually know what you are talking about? The Reality: You have no clue how many pilots or how much$$ There is absolutely no way that you could know!

The RLA is another famous reference that gets thrown around like people really do know what they are talking about. NONSENSE! It's a legal document that regularly requires layers and judges to interpret.

Nice try Homer. I think you just got boinked again.

 

[SecondSegment]

Who's going to lead this, you?
Why hasn't anyone approached me or anyone else I know about this "movement"?.

Homer, I'm Glad You Asked. It's an interesting concept called an ellection.

Why haven't you been approached? - HMMMMMMMMM?

 

[SecondSegment]

.....

 

[dime line]

Dude, You have 978 posts and list your position as "Bent Over". More than likely, you are talking about yourself.

That was a serious question. What are the chances of an agreement?

Dude, look at when I joined the board, and yea its been that long that I have been getting bent over. Sounds like you have been on your knees, so I guess no getting bent over for you.
To answer your question:
You and all of us had better hope there is a contract, there are only two outcomes to this process, a company with a contract or no company. Which one do you want? I know which one I want? Enjoy paying all of your back dues.

 

[Frac Cap]

Guys, I think you should not debate this guy. In fact, as hard as it might be, I think you should all ignore him. Doesn't anyone wounder about the coincidence that this tool joined FI a year and a half ago. What else happened a year and a half ago? We got new management, and new people that needed to monitor these boards with new names. Why has he chosen now to start talking? Because we haven't given him anything to analyze. He wants to take the pulse of the pilot group and see if their tricks will work.

Don't start up a dialog.

Don't give him anything to analyze.

 

[993_Pilot]

...You throw numbers out there like you actually know what you are talking about?...

You asked me what I think, and I told you.
This was never supposed to be a cold hard fact.

...The Reality: You have no clue how many pilots or how much$$ There is absolutely no way that you could know!...

How many pilots what? ... Are MIGs? Wear lanyards? Support an In-House?
Assuming you meant MIGs, GerryG already did the math for you with a 100% assumption, and it still isn't enough. Do even you have any clue what it costs to pay negotiators salaries, consultants/legal advisers, travel costs, run a website, rent office space, etc.? Show me the math for how an in-house at Flops could even come close to supporting all that.

...The RLA is another famous reference that gets thrown around like people really do know what they are talking about. NONSENSE! It's a legal document that regularly requires layers and judges to interpret...

What we do all know, is that it was constructed to keep essential transport from closing down and causing a hardship to the public and/or the economy by seeking to substitute bargaining, arbitration and mediation for strikes as a means of resolving labor disputes. Unfortunately, for some silly reason, we fall under the auspices of it. That is a fact, and no one is arguing any of the details that would require an attorney. If you want to learn a little more about it, click HERE

...Nice try Homer. I think you just got boinked again.

Ah yes, there's that rapier wit again.
You're all about the smartassed comments instead of a real debate. That's why it is all FUD. If you were serious at all, you would support your arguments with sound reasoning, or at least whatever reasoning you are capable of.

Homer once told me,"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

I should have listened.

Guys, I think you should not debating this guy. In fact, as hard as it might be, I think you should all ignore him. Doesn't anyone wounder about the coincidence that this tool joined FI a year and a half ago. What else happened a year and a half ago? We got new management, and new people that needed to monitor these boards with new names. Why has he chosen now to start talking? Because we haven't given him anything to analyze. He wants to take the pulse of the pilot group and see if their tricks will work.

Don't start up a dialog.

Don't give him anything to analyze.

You're right, I'm done with this FUDmeister.

 

[SecondSegment]

You asked me what I think, and I told you.
This was never supposed to be a cold hard fact.

True - There is a shortage of facts.

How many pilots what? ... Are MIGs? Wear lanyards? Support an In-House? Assuming you meant MIGs, GerryG already did the math for you with a 100% assumption, and it still isn't enough. Do even you have any clue what it costs to pay negotiators salaries, consultants/legal advisers, travel costs, run a website, rent office space, etc.? Show me the math for how an in-house at Flops could even come close to supporting all that.

Yes Homer, That is all very expensive stuff.

Website for a year? How about $50.

Travel Costs? Does that include bar tab? $10k for bar tabs alone. Break out the receipts.

Rent Office Space? This one is a Duuuzie. $25k / year. You forgot the expensive furniture and the help.

Consultants / Legal Advisor? Huge Money. More than any of us made in ten years at Options. Does that guy even have a degree? In business or massage therapy?

Dude, This is not part of the solution, It's part of the problem.
Who approved this? Did any one ever ask the guys that were paying?
Isn't that what a real union does? They have regular meetings where the treasurer takes the floor and says something like "We started the quarter with this much $$, We took in this much, and We spent this mush $$ on this this and this." Then, the membership gives approval and feedback.

Homer, I think you're on to something here.

The lanyards, Did you count _ANY_ ? Where did they go?

You better listen to Frac Crap and go put your head in the sand. All of this is starting to make way too much sense for you to deal with. Maybe better stick to those "Pat each other on the back" threads.

 

[HSDriver]

Guys, I think you should not debate this guy. In fact, as hard as it might be, I think you should all ignore him. Doesn't anyone wounder about the coincidence that this tool joined FI a year and a half ago. What else happened a year and a half ago? We got new management, and new people that needed to monitor these boards with new names. Why has he chosen now to start talking? Because we haven't given him anything to analyze. He wants to take the pulse of the pilot group and see if their tricks will work.

Don't start up a dialog.

Don't give him anything to analyze.

Frac Cap don't worry. No one take the dialog on here seriously any more anyway. Every single thread turns into childish banter.

 

[Myster79]

Cherry PM (round 2???)

round 2
Wow, you really are classy... I'm not posting FUD or whatever else you guys want to call it. All I did was make 1 comment about how many lanyards I have seen...

I didn't realize that I was responding to someone whom you think is Mgmt...(second segment) I wasn't trying to agree with him or pick sides against the rest of the pilot group!

I have 2 friends who are furloughed from Flops and want them to get their jobs back!

Maybe you guys shouldn't be judging your progress by your precious lanyards?!?

I'm not saying your union isn't going to get voted in, am I? Am I criticizing your effort to form a union, NO. I'm actually agreeing with yall that YOU need one and wishing you luck... But you're just reading into everyone's post who isn't a FLOPS guy as criticism or FUD or union busting backstabbers!

Maybe you should show some class by not posting this for everyone to see. You really want to talk to me, write me back privately...


Cherry I have no need or desire to write you privately. You already stated you are not a fan of unions... So, why post here? This is clearly a Flight Options post about the union, not XO Jets or Cherry Air. Oh and union was voted into FLOPS in March of 2006.... (not your fault for not knowing, you may have been in high school still) So, this is not about whether the union will be voted in or not. And those precious lanyards you wrote about... Yes that lanyard is a symbol for us guys that have supported our union and yes we are proud to wear them. Also, maybe you should show some class and not write your FUD anymore and yes it was FUD! Furthermore, I have nothing to keep from anyone else, so if you want to "talk to me", write me back HERE!

 

[SecondSegment]

Instead of explaining, the BULLIES have to rough the guy up.

Typical.

Feel better now StrokeMyster. You showed him. You're a real tough guy.

What an AH.

 

[993_Pilot]

Instead of explaining, the BULLIES have to rough the guy up...What an AH.

That's rich, coming from a guy that basically resorts to name calling and won't explain any details of how his is going to support or run his in-house union, let alone why he thinks it could be more successful than the IBT 1108.

Oh wait, I forgot, we get a choice ...

...Your choices are walk the plank or walk the plank.

 

[dime line]

Instead of explaining, the BULLIES have to rough the guy up.

Typical.

Feel better now StrokeMyster. You showed him. You're a real tough guy.

What an AH.

What a moron!

 

[SecondSegment]

Normally Homer Simpson is hard to beat as a moron, but when your best friend is named Buthead....

Let me put it this way, At the corporate summer party, the guys wearing the Homer and Beavis teeshirts probably work in either the mailroom or in janitorial services scrubbing toilets. Who else would Idolize them?

You guys remind me of one of those phone customer service lines in India. The Customer Service Agents are only trained to answer ten questions. No matter what question the customer asks, he is only going to get one of those ten answers. Ultimately, they try to dumb you to death so that you give up.

Now, Do I want to put my family, my living and my career at stake and be herded around like sheep by guys like this?

 

[dime line]

now, do i want to put my family, my living and my career at stake and be herded around like sheep by guys like this?

then quit

 

[GerryG]

Ad-hominem

Normally Homer Simpson is hard to beat as a moron, but when your best friend is named Buthead....

Let me put it this way, At the corporate summer party, the guys wearing the Homer and Beavis teeshirts probably work in either the mailroom or in janitorial services scrubbing toilets. Who else would Idolize them?

You guys remind me of one of those phone customer service lines in India. The Customer Service Agents are only trained to answer ten questions. No matter what question the customer asks, he is only going to get one of those ten answers. Ultimately, they try to dumb you to death so that you give up.

Now, Do I want to put my family, my living and my career at stake and be herded around like sheep by guys like this?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html