How many in good standing at FLOPS?

[hogbody]

Wrong!

The union must be worried, they are calling people and asking them what their secret vote is going to be. What a load of sh*t. When you tell them you are not going to vote in favor of a strike, they start with their intimidation bull crap.

You got it wrong NB. The IBT 1108 leadership called and asked for the support of the members in good standing, and they answered any questions the MIG's had. No different from any other individual or organization campaigning to increase support prior to any vote. Do you have knowledge of any intimidation? Please tell me you didn't just make this up. Where are the facts?

 

[jonjuan]

This kind of implied violence is part of what's wrong with the union mentality. Ok, it's not the 20s, there's no mob/organised crime behind the union. Get out of your movie world and get real...

Back to avantair with your other screen name, b19.

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

To FracJack, Skanza, et all.
The union was voted in by a majority of the pilots at Flight Options.... get over it.

Regarding negotiations:
Two different management teams have continually delayed our efforts to obtain a first contract. We have negotiated patiently and in good faith since 2006. We are still compensated 40% less than the rest of the industry, work the most days per year, receive no holiday pay, no 401K match, and pay outrageous premiums for insurance. Did I mention no job protection?
Why?

The 1108 proposal regarding pay and benefits is a reasonable one. Flops management refused to produce a counter-offer throughout this past summer despite repeated requests from the union. They presented a counter-offer at the 11th hour after being pressured by the mediator to do so.

Obviously, our negotiating team felt the offer was woefully inadequate and has made the decision to take a strike vote. A "no" vote says you prefer status quo. I cannot believe anyone in good standing would vote no.

Wake up!

 

[dime line]

To FracJack, Skanza, et all.
The union was voted in by a majority of the pilots at Flight Options.... get over it.

And if you don't like, then quit!

 

[fracjack]

The union was voted in by a majority of the pilots at Flight Options.... get over it.

!

Tell me...is the majority also migs?

they all could be but 1108 has their not done that in good faith.

Follow the money, the dues paid by flop migs is a pitance. The real money was inherited. Rule changes and ballots were a majority direct result of the NJ pilots and on their way out of IBT1108 they took a nice fat loan.
Dubinsky has been so out of touch with this industry and led the remainder to pick up the pieces if there are any pieces left.

Just for the record I would support a strike vote

 

[bunman45]

Your group doesn't have the balls to strike. Just keep taking it in the a$$!

 

[shanes123]

Your group doesn't have the balls to strike. Just keep taking it in the a$$!

I AGREE!!!..The union leader is weak and the pilot group is even weaker.

 

[skyismyoffice]

I AGREE!!!..The union leader is weak and the pilot group is even weaker.

$100 says you are WRONG!!!

 

[Dingo221]

I repeat,
I will not vote for the strike but I will not be a scab.
Not affraid of the repercusions but I will not cross the picket line and will support them. I just do not think a strike is the way to go.

 

[993_Pilot]

I repeat,
I will not vote for the strike but I will not be a scab.
Not affraid of the repercusions but I will not cross the picket line and will support them. I just do not think a strike is the way to go.

Nobody really thinks that a strike is the way to go. Just because most of us are voting "Yes" to a strike authorizatiuon doesn't mean that we want one. But make no mistake about it, Most of us are willing to strike if necessary. I just hope they don't try to call our bluff, because we aren't bluffing. It would be much better for Everybody if the management would just come to the table, in a timely fashion, with a serious offer and settle this thing. So far they haven't.

Educate yourself... You really need to watch the videos on the union website. Long before they happened, Phil Comstock has pretty much called every move/tactic that the company has used, even though they claim they aren't using a "playbook". If they were really genuine, they wouldn't still have FUD & Harrison on retainer. Herzbergs "thoughts and concerns" are right out of the anti-union FUD playbook. Prepare for more of the company spin soon... just take them for what they are, more FUD!

 

[dime line]

I repeat,
I will not vote for the strike but I will not be a scab.
Not affraid of the repercusions but I will not cross the picket line and will support them. I just do not think a strike is the way to go.

.....

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

Tell me...is the majority also migs?

they all could be but 1108 has their not done that in good faith.

Follow the money, the dues paid by flop migs is a pitance. The real money was inherited. Rule changes and ballots were a majority direct result of the NJ pilots and on their way out of IBT1108 they took a nice fat loan.
Dubinsky has been so out of touch with this industry and led the remainder to pick up the pieces if there are any pieces left.

Just for the record I would support a strike vote

I appreciate your statement of support for a strike. That sentiment has been echoed by many others who are not in good standing. Even though they cannot cast a vote, they will not cross the picket line in the event a strike takes place.

I do wonder though, what are you hoping to gain by criticizing the 1108 at this point? What alternative do you propose? How about directing some of that vitriol towards management?

Consider:

Continued stalling of the negotiations process.

Refusal to negotiate scope.

401K match eliminated in Feb 09.

No sick days

No holiday pay

Arbitrary firings without representation

Salaries that average 40% less than the industry

 

[jonjuan]

Consider:

Continued stalling of the negotiations process.

Refusal to negotiate scope.

401K match eliminated in Feb 09.

No sick days

No holiday pay

Arbitrary firings without representation

Salaries that average 40% less than the industry

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/09/the_union_representing_about_5.html

The union representing about 500 pilots at Flight Options LLC has scheduled a strike authorization vote as the clock ticks down on negotiations with the fractional ownership jet company.
The pilots have been bargaining for a first contract since being organized by the Teamsters in June 2006.
Representatives of Flights Options and of Teamsters Local1108 met in Washington at the offices of the National Mediation Board last week but didn't agree on remaining pay, benefit and work rule provisions. The federal mediator on the case set a final bargaining session for Oct. 26-31.
A strike authorization vote does not mean a union will necessarily strike. But it lays the groundwork for union leaders to call a strike if no agreement is reached.
Strike authorization ballots were sent to Flight Options pilots on Monday. Ballots will be counted at Local 1108's offices on Oct. 19.
Flight Options Chief Executive Mike Silvestro said the company presented a comprehensive proposal to the union last week and has not received a counter proposal.
"We have nine negotiating sessions already planned in the next few weeks -- leading up to a meeting with the federal mediator at the end of October," he said.

So what did the "comprehensive proposal" entail?

 

[fracjack]

I appreciate your statement of support for a strike. That sentiment has been echoed by many others who are not in good standing. Even though they cannot cast a vote, they will not cross the picket line in the event a strike takes place.

I do wonder though, what are you hoping to gain by criticizing the 1108 at this point? What alternative do you propose? How about directing some of that vitriol towards management?

Consider:

Continued stalling of the negotiations process.

Refusal to negotiate scope.

401K match eliminated in Feb 09.

No sick days

No holiday pay

Arbitrary firings without representation

Salaries that average 40% less than the industry

Managements actions have been repeated numerous times and well known.
Unions actions have not.
Should a CBA ever come there will be a bitterness within the pilot group exponentially higher than the old FLOPS-RTA merger and the company will be able to just watch and laugh. Only the 1108 can do anything to unite the groups and I would be surprised. This industry is like no other and no one had the foresight to predict or plan for an economic downturn while focusing on NJ CBA and following Captain United who was not smart enough to see how stupid Sh*tfinger was in believing the pilots would not disrupt the owners and cardholders when in fact many did while the union officially did not condone their actions but unofficially probably did and I believe that came way of Capt United.
Do I have to explain the result? If you were Mr/Mrs Big and Rich would you even look twice at FLOPS?
This company now has a deserved reputation and IF it survives they will need to be twice as good to be thought of being half as good as the competitors. That is not a pessimistic view it's just a realistic one.
It will be embarassing to see the number of votes cast as compared to the number of pilots on the seniority list, I'll wager much less than the initial vote for the union. That vote incidently,from a good source was stategically timed just prior to the company's announcement of pay increases.
There will be no recalls or growth or even status quo of flying unless forced action is taken and if that means a strike threat than so be it, without the real threat of a strike this company will continue to wither slowly away to nothing and every furloughed pilot that stays in aviation flying will enjoy being the senior crewmember to his/her former senior peers. I'm afraid there will be some real bruised egos.
Both side have run out of options at this point(no pun intended)
I wish all the FLOPS pilots luck, they will need it.

 

[Captain Dork]

On that go on strike subject...

I personally hope we have an actual strike with picket lines, work stoppage, standing across from HQ with a sign, standing around a barrel for heat drinking coffee, ratting out the scabs etc..

The company will find out how much negative cash-flow they can stand, because: (1) cost of charter (2) cost of contract redemptions (3) cost of retraining replacement workers (4) cost of accelerated checkride schedule-most of the checkairmen are union guys (5) interruption of refueling services at teamster represented FBO's (6) cost of marketing to overcome customer reluctance to deal with a now small bam operation (7) higher insurance cost (8) added pressure from the FAA-this occurs in 121 anyway (9) loss of customer base that is union issue sensitive.

My hardcore anti-union co-workers that come to work even one day will get to wear the scab label-forever. This is quite the monument one gets to carry for perpituity. I have known people that couldn't get a major airline job because their dad's were scabs twenty years ago.

We have many, (around 100) people who are going to cross that picket line. I believe some of the original hiring process was functionally designed to hire that type of person. It may be just that core group of believers that will give the company the emotional momentum to attempt a "lockout" and a quick restart. However, I can't think of anytime that has succeeded in a medium sized company, once a union has been voted (by 68 percent) on to the property.

Kenn's self-authored book "Trust" is often offered as the light that will guide to a new direction. Does any one remember the name of the character that tricks Pinocchio into joining the circus? His name was
Honest John. Sort of how you might have a Truthful Timm, the Car Dealer you can Trust. The crazy schlock that the company trys to feed us becomes even more entertaining as the quest for contract goes on-The Four Non-Negotiables, Love the Customer (can you feel the love coming back, boy I sure can), or Fanantical Attention to Detail (suggest that next time you ground an airplane in an out of the way airport). My personal bio will be Captain Dork-The Huge Stallion.

Anyway FO management, please roll the dice.

 

[shanes123]

$100 says you are WRONG!!!

$100?? Please..how about 10k..oh wait sorry..you make 40% less than me have no 401k match and have to pay for your own benefits all while working a xtra 2 days more a month than me..

Where you want to send the check?

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

Managements actions have been repeated numerous times and well known.
Unions actions have not.
Should a CBA ever come there will be a bitterness within the pilot group exponentially higher than the old FLOPS-RTA merger and the company will be able to just watch and laugh. Only the 1108 can do anything to unite the groups and I would be surprised. This industry is like no other and no one had the foresight to predict or plan for an economic downturn while focusing on NJ CBA and following Captain United who was not smart enough to see how stupid Sh*tfinger was in believing the pilots would not disrupt the owners and cardholders when in fact many did while the union officially did not condone their actions but unofficially probably did and I believe that came way of Capt United.
Do I have to explain the result? If you were Mr/Mrs Big and Rich would you even look twice at FLOPS?
This company now has a deserved reputation and IF it survives they will need to be twice as good to be thought of being half as good as the competitors. That is not a pessimistic view it's just a realistic one.
It will be embarassing to see the number of votes cast as compared to the number of pilots on the seniority list, I'll wager much less than the initial vote for the union. That vote incidently,from a good source was stategically timed just prior to the company's announcement of pay increases.
There will be no recalls or growth or even status quo of flying unless forced action is taken and if that means a strike threat than so be it, without the real threat of a strike this company will continue to wither slowly away to nothing and every furloughed pilot that stays in aviation flying will enjoy being the senior crewmember to his/her former senior peers. I'm afraid there will be some real bruised egos.
Both side have run out of options at this point(no pun intended)
I wish all the FLOPS pilots luck, they will need it.

Fracjack,
First off...... are you new here? Do you even work at Flops?

Your statement about the "strategic timing" of the union vote is laughable. The union drive had been underway for over a year due to the draconian changes implemented by Scheringa in 2005. Have you forgotten his decision to abandon Tier 3 domicile crews? Elimination of the travel allowance, except for those living in CGF. Repeated 14hr duty days followed by min (10 hrs) rest in a "Quality Inn" 29 minutes away from the airport. Duty on at 0500 am at the fbo with no trips scheduled, huge increases in health ins premiums, etc, etc.

AFTER they discovered a union vote was imminent, management began the "we love our pilots" campaign. You remember that right? The VP of OPS, Program Managers, the Chief Pilot, and the director of HR attempting to buy as dinner and "talk" while we were off duty at TEB, PBI, LAS etc. Way too little, too late.

Without a CBA, ANY raise, ANY benefit they may have offered could and would be taken away with a simple e-mail. "Policy of the week" reigns supreme. Witness the elimination of the 401K match this year.

The majority of the pilots here at FLOPS decided that when you're dealing with a manager intent on destroying careers, working without a contract is foolhardy.

Was there a write-up campaign? Of course not. The union leadership, esp Dubinsky, made a point of stressing that "no job action was to be taken". The aircraft hadn't been maintained and the crews quit carrying write-ups, its as simple as that. Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.......

As far as "Captain United".....considering our foes (the various management teams as well as F&H), I want an experienced, aggressive advisor in my corner. What do you propose? "Trust"?

You have posted your complaints about the union. Again, I will ask you. What solutions do you offer?

Meanwhile, FLOPS management continues their delay tactics.

Tick tock, tick tock.........

 

[bchjetdrvr]

.....

 

[fracjack]

Fracjack,
First off...... are you new here? Do you even work at Flops?

Your statement about the "strategic timing" of the union vote is laughable. The union drive had been underway for over a year due to the draconian changes implemented by Scheringa in 2005. Have you forgotten his decision to abandon Tier 3 domicile crews? Elimination of the travel allowance, except for those living in CGF. Repeated 14hr duty days followed by min (10 hrs) rest in a "Quality Inn" 29 minutes away from the airport. Duty on at 0500 am at the fbo with no trips scheduled, huge increases in health ins premiums, etc, etc.

AFTER they discovered a union vote was imminent, management began the "we love our pilots" campaign. You remember that right? The VP of OPS, Program Managers, the Chief Pilot, and the director of HR attempting to buy as dinner and "talk" while we were off duty at TEB, PBI, LAS etc. Way too little, too late.

Without a CBA, ANY raise, ANY benefit they may have offered could and would be taken away with a simple e-mail. "Policy of the week" reigns supreme. Witness the elimination of the 401K match this year.

The majority of the pilots here at FLOPS decided that when you're dealing with a manager intent on destroying careers, working without a contract is foolhardy.

Was there a write-up campaign? Of course not. The union leadership, esp Dubinsky, made a point of stressing that "no job action was to be taken". The aircraft hadn't been maintained and the crews quit carrying write-ups, its as simple as that. Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.......

As far as "Captain United".....considering our foes (the various management teams as well as F&H), I want an experienced, aggressive advisor in my corner. What do you propose? "Trust"?

You have posted your complaints about the union. Again, I will ask you. What solutions do you offer?

Meanwhile, FLOPS management continues their delay tactics.

Tick tock, tick tock.........

I see by your response this would be your first rodeo. Not to worry ,there are plenty of naive people like yourself. As for solution,there is none at this point in time other than support the 1108 until a CBA is reached and then boot 'em in the a$$ out the door unless of course they can unite the pilots. Another lesson of life here that you have yet to learn.

 

[cougar12]

Fracjack and any other freeloaders I got my ballot and I voted YES! I support OUR union! I hope we get 98%. I guess all of you don't pay your taxes or any of your other bills because you don't agree with them. As far as I am concerned you are a bunch of whinning babies that love the democratic process as long as everything goes your way. If not, it's not fair, they cheated, they changed the rules, they changed the ballots, I'm not paying my dues. Pathetic!
It amazes me how many people remain so uninformed! If you have questions call a member of the E-board.