How many Bluedudes updating their apps

[General Lee]

Im not going to Delta. Maybe some Trannys want to.

Probably the bottom half of your list will throw in apps. Your retirement numbers aren't great at all coming up for at least this decade, and thoughts of LBB, MAF, and AMA layovers can make anyone dispeptic.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Buford]

Once they start hiring what would first year pay at Delta look like? In the sandpit right now and it would be a huge (and expensive) move to head back Stateside. However, been here 7 years and patience is wearing thin. The IRS don't make this job worth it any more - and it needs to be worth it to put up with all the BS. Can a family of four survive on first year Delta pay?!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Once they start hiring what would first year pay at Delta look like? In the sandpit right now and it would be a huge (and expensive) move to head back Stateside. However, been here 7 years and patience is wearing thin. The IRS don't make this job worth it any more - and it needs to be worth it to put up with all the BS. Can a family of four survive on first year Delta pay?!

An entry level pilot will be paid at the monthly rate of:
1. $3,377.96 effective July 1, 2012.
2. $3,665.09 effective January 1, 2013.
3. $3,775.04 effective January 1, 2014.
4. $3,888.29 effective January 1, 2015

After OE you're on a first year rate of $61/hr. RSV guarantee is now 72-80. You may break that in the busy summer months if you make yourself available.

 

[fam62c]

Probably the bottom half of your list will throw in apps. Your retirement numbers aren't great at all coming up for at least this decade, and thoughts of LBB, MAF, and AMA layovers can make anyone dispeptic.


Bye Bye---General Lee

It's hard to say how many existing SW/AT guys would make the leap to DAL if they were hiring (maybe some young AT guys stuck on the B-scale might do it if they have the chance before they go over to SW) but it does raise a question about the future. Fast forward a few years and if there is a lot of legacy retirement hiring, seniority list progression and contract improvements how many young pilots are going to choose to sit in the right seat of a 737 for 20+ years if they have a choice? How many are going to pay for a type rating to do it?

I think we will eventually revert to the norms of the past and SW will be a good place to work (not as good as it once was because of slow movement up the list and a very long upgrade) but not the first choice for the majority of younger pilots. For the people at the bottom (especially those over 40) SW is a good job but it doesn't offer any career progression......one aircraft type, one type of flying and a very long upgrade (never for quite a few FO's). SW is a big, mature carrier and the fast growth is over. Most of the CA's have already been hired and they will be in those seats for many years. I have nothing against SW but this is what I see going forward. At some point there isn't going to be anything special about SW.

 

[redflyer65]

Not sure I totally agree that the growth days are over for SW going forward. Especially when they just go to the lower 48. Time will tell.

The junior pilots tend to look for greener pastures no matter where they are. We had quite a few Delta pilots make the jump in 07 and 08 over to SW. I could see some junior SW guys make the jump the other way. Overall, I think both DL and SW are both good companies to be at recently. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Dizel8]

A better question would be, how many DAL, HAL, Unical, ALK, FDX, SWA, AAA, AWA, AA and UPS pilots are updating their resume to go to Bigblue?

I would think none!

 

[Skyboy722]

This Southwest guy expects quite a lot of guys to leave. Sadly, I'm really not sure I can blame them.

Last week I needed to see the chief but he was busy doing an exit interview. So it's already happening.

 

[fam62c]

This Southwest guy expects quite a lot of guys to leave. Sadly, I'm really not sure I can blame them.

Last week I needed to see the chief but he was busy doing an exit interview. So it's already happening.

I would think that the guys most likely to leave will be the younger AT pilots if hiring starts before they cross the fence to SW. For the people already at SW it would be hard to leave the money and start over again unless you are pretty young. If you are under 35, maybe even 40 and fairly new at SW it might make sense to leave once legacy hiring gets in high gear but if you are in a base you like, have decent control over your schedule and are making good money it's hard to start over.

Five years from now I think SW will have a tougher time recruiting and retaining the most qualified pilots. Once the pay at the legacy carriers starts to catch up (like we just saw at DAL) SW won't have much going for it that would attract younger pilots because the seniority list will be so stagnant and there is only one position......737 FO. In the 1990's when things were still good and there was a lot of hiring SW wasn't the first choice for most pilots and growth was the attraction for the ones who wanted to work there. When everything blew up SW was in the best position to weather the storm and they ended up at the top of the heap but it probably won't be like that forever.

SW is still an excellent company that pays very well and they have a nice selection of bases (maybe their one real recruiting advantage going forward if they can keep adding more of them to give pilots many options to live in base) but without the career progression they will never be as attractive as they once were unless something really changes with the business plan. For now though SW is past it's peak as a career destination for new hires.

 

[Whataburger]

I think when it comes to SWA guys leaving, the number will be very small. A 3yr guy here will take a $60,000/yr pay cut to go to DAL. Explain that to Momma! I fail to see the importance of the fourth strip when a pilot in the right seat here can make more than most captains at other airlines and have more days off doing it. The most days a new pilot here can be scheduled for on RES is 15. So leave SWA for a paycut and less days off?

I might be in the minority of pilots, but who cares about what you fly, where you fly it to, and how many stripes you have? I enjoy going to work, but I like comming home much more. The only people that think huge airplanes that fly to Paris are cool are 10 yr old boys. 10 yr old boys also still like clowns and think girls are gross! What does that say?

When there have been over 300 airline bankruptcies since deregulation, why leave the ONLY US carrier that has been sucessful in navigating the crazy waters of the last few decades? Do you want "Job Coolness" in big sexxxxxy jets, or "Job Security?" Try stroking a check backed by "job coolness." It's tough to send your kids to college or pay a house payment on "job coolness," especially when you take another pay cut or your get a WARN notice.

The days of SWA in "Nuts" are LOOOOOONG gone. Now it is a more Legacy-ee airline. Lots of employees, more middle managers, and more disgruntled employees. However, after having quite a few of AA and DAL Senior dudes on my jumpseat recently - A good day at AA and DAL is still worse than my worst day at SWA.

Many of us still truely enjoy our airline, but it's like a family member: We will bitch about it, but when a non-family member bashes it we get protective.

Make a pro/con list of leaving your current pasture for greener ones. If you have more check markes in "go" then go. If you have more marks in "stay" then stay.

I am now back to the 'Meter.

 

[redflyer65]

That's pretty much my sentiment as well Whatburger. Especially the part about making as much in the right seat than at most other carriers. Add in the flexibility with the ability to pickup or drop as much as you want and it would be tough to start over.

I do agree, I see any that leave will be the very, very bottom. It will happen, most likely very low numbers.

 

[Whine Lover]

" Can a family of four survive on first year Delta pay?!"



> " Average annual income in United States is around 47,000 USD, according to 2011/2012 salary survey. Statistics shows that 50 percent of population live on $46,000 or less a year. "


> " An entry level pilot will be paid at the monthly rate of:

1. $3,377.96 effective July 1, 2012.

After OE you're on a first year rate of $61/hr. RSV guarantee is now 72-80. You may break that in the busy summer months if you make yourself available."


With 4 months of Training pay/OE @$3378/mo + 8 months of gaurantee @ $61x72 you will clear $48,648 for year one. MINIMUM.

You should be JUST FINE, if they hire you...

If, after 7 years of sandbox pay and the above first year pay you can't seem to make ends meet...Umm, well, there's not much left to say.

Is there?




YKW

 

[scoreboardII]

That's pretty much my sentiment as well Whatburger. Especially the part about making as much in the right seat than at most other carriers. Add in the flexibility with the ability to pickup or drop as much as you want and it would be tough to start over.

I do agree, I see any that leave will be the very, very bottom. It will happen, most likely very low numbers.

Until the inevitable shift of good flying away from the junior as they are forced into Redeye's and internationals worst schedules, then you will see hundreds of not a thousand head for the door.

Imagine you are the DAL human resource director and have the opportunity to score hundreds of SWA ship jumpers, that is a human resource wet dream, take away the competitors number one selling point, it's people.

 

[redflyer65]

You make valid points Score.

But what kind of flying would you be doing on the bottom of a Delta list? They do alot of redeyes and will be doing multiple legs in the DC9/717. I've heard the DL scheduling on those AC is much different than the old NW.

It's funny that General touts our 'eight' leg a days, but the reality may have already shifted to SW doing less flights per day (from a pilot prospective), and DL cranking out more legs than SW with their narrow body planes. Interesting times. In the end, it will just be a personal choice for each individual and a review of what works for your family. As it should be.

 

[xjt40]

A better question would be, how many DAL, HAL, Unical, ALK, FDX, SWA, AAA, AWA, AA and UPS pilots are updating their resume to go to Bigblue?

I would think none!

A better guess would be NONEWHATSOEVER.

 

[Mamma]

CP said Alaska is hiring 6-8 every two week. Up to 120 total next year.