How do you brief your departure?

[MarineGrunt]

In the past 13 sims at FS, I've been given about 13 different techniques on takeoff/depature briefings, and almost every time on the next sim I am told "don't brief it that way," you need to brief this..... etc, etc. I have been taught some techniques that later on I learn are stupid or just downright dangerous.

That being said, I'm interested to hear how some of you guys/gals brief the departure, including normal takeoff procedures, speeds, aborts (specifically who makes the decision and actions), emergency procedues, etc.

Please be detailed and if you have any personal techniques, please elaborate on why you choose to do it that way. I'm young in my heavy aircraft experience, so I want to learn this stuff right from the get go. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I'm getting that training. I am especially interested in what you Guard/Reserve KC-135 guys have to say.

Thanks in advance.

 

[JetPilot500]

Pretty Simple Actually:

1. Discuss Any changes to normal procedures.
2. Review what you do if a problem occurs before V1. What you'll abort for and who does what.
3. Review what you do if a problem occurs after V1. Who does what and where you'll go.
4. Review clearance departure procedure.
5. Ask if the other pilot has any questions or any thing to add.

Example:

(1) "We'll use standard callouts and procedures today."
(2) "If anything abnormal occurs before 90 knots we will abort. After 90 but before V1 we'll abort only for a Fire, Engine Failure, Thrust Reverser Deployment or any loss of control. If we do abort you get the airbrakes and I'll apply maximum braking, throttles to idle and TR (thrust reverse) if its available."
(3) "Anything abnormal after V1, we'll take into the air. I'll fly the airplane and work the radios, you run the checklists. We'll return back to runway 36 if we need to."
(4) "The clearance states that we are to fly runway heading up to 3000' for vectors to XYZ."
(5) "Do you have any questions or comments?"

Enjoy!
Jetpilot500

P.S. Look forward to seeing you over at the "other" website!

 

[EagleRJ]

-who's flying
-aircraft configuration- flaps- thrust setting- trim- anti-ice configuration
-vee speeds
-runway and departure procedure- inital course/heading and altitude
-abort conditions and responsibilities (who decides and who does what is normally determined by company SOP)
-inital action for airborne emergencies- who has the airplane/ radio/ checklist
-emergency return airport/runway and how you're going to get there
-weather, MEL, NOTAM considerations

It's a big help for overall safety and efficiency if every Captain briefs departures the same way. Making small additions is fine if you feel you need to, but standardization makes things a lot easier.

 

[pilotpat]

Jetpilot - sounds 100% like the brief I use on the F-20...simple & no frills. Although for #3 I usually say - "Both of us scream and cry....then we'll take it into the air...."

 

[MarineGrunt]

-abort conditions and responsibilities (who decides and who does what is normally determined by company SOP)

This was where I got spanked the other day. I briefed that prior to 90 knots either pilot may call for the abort. This was what I was encouraged to brief in a previous sim, then got my balls busted for it later because "the aircraft commander should never delegate critical decisions to the co-pilot" or something to that effect. I can see it both ways. Maybe I will get more direction after training when I get to my unit.....

 

[Bjammin]

We use the acronymn C.T.W.O.

-Chart - Chart number and date, any altitude constraints, notes, and basic initial actions.

-Terrign - The MSA, any significant terrign during and after the procedure

-Weather - How weather may effect the flight, turbulance, wet runway, windshear

-Operational - who will do what, abort procudures, any non standard speed constraints, and any threats to the flight like a pilot coming off of many days off, not fully rested, any mechanical issues, or absolutly anything non standard.

This seems to cover almost any thing and keeps it very standard in the company.

Hope this helps.

 

[pilotpat]

Marine Grunt - I feel your brief was correct - at least in civilian flying. I can't speak for military training.

"the aircraft commander should never delegate critical decisions to the co-pilot"

What if the "commander" wasn't doing a good job of commanding that day or he didn't see that little red light flash because he was looking down the runway as he should....?
Just my .02

 

[PacoPollo]

S.A.L.T.

Same
As
Last
Time

 

[MarineGrunt]

Marine Grunt - I feel your brief was correct - at least in civilian flying. I can't speak for military training.

"the aircraft commander should never delegate critical decisions to the co-pilot"

What if the "commander" wasn't doing a good job of commanding that day or he didn't see that little red light flash because he was looking down the runway as he should....?
Just my .02

I agree. In the Beechjet, low speed aborts usually weren't too critical. In the 135 at low airspeed, high power setting on TO, if you lose #1 or #4 you are going on a little tour off the runway if you don't take action immediately. If the co-pilot if the PF, is he supposed to wait for the AC (captain) to make the call as they're screaming off the runway? In that situation you have no choice but to initiate the abort.

On the other side of the issue, where do you as the AC/captain draw the line on when you are the sole authority for the abort? The point was made to me that you don't want a 250 hour pilot screaming abort at 2 knots prior to V1 for an anti-skid fail light. Also that you as the AC/captain have the responsibility and authority for everything that happens with that airplane and you should never delegate that during a critical phase. The co-pilot should call out what they see and the AC will make the decision accordingly.

I agree with both techniques in certain situations, but then again, I am speaking from little to no experience. Thanks to all the replies so far. Still looking for any other opinions.

 

[User546]

We use almost the same briefing as JetPilot500, except we also throw in the detailed steps to be impemented in the event we lose an engine.

 

[User546]

On the other side of the issue, where do you as the AC/captain draw the line on when you are the sole authority for the abort? The point was made to me that you don't want a 250 hour pilot screaming abort at 2 knots prior to V1 for an anti-skid fail light.

Easy way around that is to give them the criteria at which an abort should only be called for. (Which should be part of your briefing anyways)

For instance:
"Below 80 knots, we'll stop for any calls. Above 80 knots, we're only stopping for an engine failure, fire, structural failure, or loss of directional control. After V1, we're not stopping."

Keeps it easy and simple if you have a lower time guy flying with you that doesn't undertsand what's considered true abort criteria.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If the co-pilot if the PF, is he supposed to wait for the AC (captain) to make the call as they're screaming off the runway? In that situation you have no choice but to initiate the abort.

On the other side of the issue, where do you as the AC/captain draw the line on when you are the sole authority for the abort? The point was made to me that you don't want a 250 hour pilot screaming abort at 2 knots prior to V1 for an anti-skid fail light. Also that you as the AC/captain have the responsibility and authority for everything that happens with that airplane and you should never delegate that during a critical phase. The co-pilot should call out what they see and the AC will make the decision accordingly.

Yes, as Captain you are responsible, and need to make the final decision. What I prefer my copilots to do is call "Abort--Antiskid fail". This gets me going on the abort, and gives me the reason for it so I can make the final call. If I have a 10,000-hour co-captain yelling abort, I'll probably start the abort when he's about halfway through "Antiskid". If it's a 250-hour pilot, I'll probably spend a few more microseconds evaluating.

As to the specific example, an antiskid failure shouldn't generate an abort call that close to V1...we abort for "any malfunction" prior to 80 knots, and between 80 and V1 only for "engine failure, engine fire, thrust reverser deployment, or loss of directional control". In the Falcons, we used to include "trim clacker" as well.

Obviously, the ONLY failure that's included in accelerate-stop or accelerate-go calculations is a "simple" engine failure, where it just rolls on back to nothing. Blown tires, system malfunctions, or pretty much anything else requires varying amounts of pilot judgement, but for the most part, unless it's an engine failure, fire, or loss of directional control, taking it into the air is probably preferable to a high-speed abort. (notice the "for the most part" and "probably" disclaimers...there are ABSOLUTELY NO ABSOLUTES in aviation).

Fly safe!
David

 

[PCL_128]

Marine Grunt - I feel your brief was correct - at least in civilian flying. I can't speak for military training.

"the aircraft commander should never delegate critical decisions to the co-pilot"

What if the "commander" wasn't doing a good job of commanding that day or he didn't see that little red light flash because he was looking down the runway as he should....?
Just my .02

The Captain, or "Aircraft Commander" if military, should always be the one to make the final decision whether to abort. The FO or Co-Pilot should certainly callout what he sees, but he should not be the one yelling out "Abort." This is especially true when flying with the newer guys. The last thing I need is a new FO calling out "abort" for an EFIS COMP MON msg at 110 knots. It's much better for him just to call out the EICAS message and then I can evaluate what to do.

 

[FN FAL]

S.A.L.T.

Same
As
Last
Time

Rammstein: In

CD: Play

Volume: 9

Runway items: Complete

Relevant power lever: Max Take Off

Brakes: Release

Callouts: Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

check dis,
$hit go down for we be fast we be jaming da skids
after dat, we take it on the fly
don't do $hit tell 400 ft
I be drivin, you be jivin
take her around and land it southside

 

[great cornholio]

I like to use "If $hit goes down before we be fast we jammin on the skids. After that we takin it on the fly. I fly you floss dont touch $hit till 500 feet she be kinda light today so we bring her back on the southside. "

 

[Lead Sled]

Pretty Simple Actually:

1. Discuss Any changes to normal procedures.
2. Review what you do if a problem occurs before V1. What you'll abort for and who does what.
3. Review what you do if a problem occurs after V1. Who does what and where you'll go.
4. Review clearance departure procedure.
5. Ask if the other pilot has any questions or any thing to add.

Example:

(1) "We'll use standard callouts and procedures today."
(2) "If anything abnormal occurs before 90 knots we will abort. After 90 but before V1 we'll abort only for a Fire, Engine Failure, Thrust Reverser Deployment or any loss of control. If we do abort you get the airbrakes and I'll apply maximum braking, throttles to idle and TR (thrust reverse) if its available."
(3) "Anything abnormal after V1, we'll take into the air. I'll fly the airplane and work the radios, you run the checklists. We'll return back to runway 36 if we need to."
(4) "The clearance states that we are to fly runway heading up to 3000' for vectors to XYZ."
(5) "Do you have any questions or comments?"

FWIW, I pretty much follow the above. However, I would like to add a couple of thoughts...

If you use phraseology such as "Standard Brief" or "SALT" or "As previously briefed" in the brief I would suggest that you consider incorporating at least one full briefing (usually the first flight of the day) into your SOPs.

I've flown with guys who habitually use the phrase "Standard Briefing" and I have no problem with that; however, after a period of time "Standard Briefing" begins to lose its original meaning (an abbreviated way of listing certain specific components) and simply becomes the meaningless phrase "Standard Briefing". I have, on occasion, asked those guys what the standard briefing was and in more than a few cases the response was "You know - the standard briefing." When pressed, they either couldn't tell me what the "standard briefing" was or at best had to think about it for a moment or two (or longer).

Shortcuts are nice and we all use them; however the next time you fly with a person who says "standard briefing" simply ask him what that is. If he doesn't know what it is or if your idea of what the standard briefing is doesn't correspond 100% to his then you know what you need to be doing.

'Sled

 

[Shaggy 135 Guy]

I brief that if you're a former marine named joe, you just sit in the seat and stay quiet unless I'm on fire because you're a jarhead!

just kidding

 

[landlover]

i read it on here a long while ago. for take off

what jetpilot500 said plus

Dear God, let these engines run for at least 5 minutes once I stand these mothers up.

 

[MarineGrunt]

I brief that if you're a former marine named joe, you just sit in the seat and stay quiet unless I'm on fire because you're a jarhead!

just kidding

I'm thinking of trying, "Just sit back and relax while I floss and fly this mo-fo all over this b!tch...."

 

[DorkProp]

Favorite brief from a CAK-based pilot, before we closed the CAK base... Take-off briefing: "CAK" Didn't matter what airport you were at. It was always, "CAK".

 

[Cardinal]

This airplane, that runway. Questions?

 

[pilotpat]

The Captain, or "Aircraft Commander" if military, should always be the one to make the final decision whether to abort. The FO or Co-Pilot should certainly callout what he sees, but he should not be the one yelling out "Abort." This is especially true when flying with the newer guys. The last thing I need is a new FO calling out "abort" for an EFIS COMP MON msg at 110 knots. It's much better for him just to call out the EICAS message and then I can evaluate what to do.

Do you think your right seater would really call out an "abort" for an EFIS message?? If so, then I'd wonder how that person made it through initial... Maybe I'm a little touchy on the subject since I am a right seater for now, but I think I'd know before V1 when a major item demands an abort. I can't tell you how many times in the sim the "captain" got chewed out because I called a "amber caution" that he ignored. Obviously, (I hope) someone wouldn't get their nad voice screaming over an "Inverter Fail" light...

 

[Wankel7]

"Hit the guns son!"

check dis,
$hit go down for we be fast we be jaming da skids
after dat, we take it on the fly
don't do $hit tell 400 ft
I be drivin, you be jivin
take her around and land it southside

That was great! I am doing that on my six month tomorrow!

 

[FN FAL]

Because you're a jarhead!

...just kidding

No you're not. Cut to the chase! You know it and I know it...everybody knows it. Jarheads have to take their hats off to pee.

 

[minitour]

Excellent info guys....thanks!

-mini

 

[TankerPuke]

GRUNTer-

You're on the right track, so let me offer my 3$. Do whatever gets you through the SIM. Nod politely and say, "man, I never thought of it that way." Ask your flightline instructor how the evaluators (the ones that pass you and get you back home) want it done. Do what you have to do to get out of Altus, it's different in the real world.

As far as your unit (which I am very familar with...hehe) - there is a standard brief you will learn when you get home. Like I said - flightline instructor wants...flightline instructor gets.

Some thoughts - its the AC/CPT decision. I know you have more experience than some, but I personally don't want a NEW CP calling an abort at 125 knots (S1 140) for a TR FAIL or an OVHD CAUTION for a generator tripping offline. It would be like a new FO calling an abort for an EFIS COMP MON (as mentioned before) or ANTI SKID FAIL just prior or at decision in the RJ. I do know what you are saying though with an engine failure, but if I as the AC have your throttles for takeoff it will be pretty apparent as you start to tool off the runway centerline and I would abort anyway. Deal with this other stuff I mentioned in the air.

Grunt - I would trust you and I will when you get back. Just nod to the FS guys and get to the flightline. OK? Now get back to your Dash 1 studies...

PUKE

P.S. I am in the SIM at Fairchild with one of your FS instructors (Scott). Also, if you get a SIM FS guy with the intials of CH...call in sick.

 

[hobbsmeter]

Like Cardinal said..."mine off of runway ___, any questions?"

 

[MarineGrunt]

Grunt - I would trust you and I will when you get back.

Sheesh, you're more brave than I am. I sure as heck don't trust me!

]P.S. I am in the SIM at Fairchild with one of your FS instructors (Scott). Also, if you get a SIM FS guy with the intials of CH...call in sick.

I have CH tomorrow for the third time. Know of any bad Chinese places in Altus? uke: He's not that bad really, I actually learned quite a bit from him. However, I'm interested to know the "story" so PM or email me when you get time.

Now get back to your Dash 1 studies...

What??? You mean we're supposed to be reading that thing???? Uuuuuuum..... gotta go.... I have stuff to do!

 

[mar]

And now for something completely different

I think it's fairly standard to leave the decision to abort with the Capt.

That doesn't mean the FO sits there with their arms crossed.

But at my company, not only does the Capt make the decision but he performs *every* abort--no matter who the "flying pilot" is.

Obviously when the Capt is the "FP" he handles the decision, the power and the brakes.

But when the FO is the "FP", on takeoff, the Capt and FE will set the power. The Capt will release the brakes, the FO will steer with rudder and both hands on the yoke. The Capt keeps his hand on the power levers until V1 in case of abort.

On this part of the brief I say, "It's a right seat departure. We'll abort for any malfunction below 80 knots, between 80 knots and V1 we'll abort for engine failure, fires or inability of the airplane to fly, any malfunction after V1 we'll treat like an inflight emergency. If we need to make an immediate return the ILS to XX is in use, otherwise we'll need to dump. The Capt will perform the abort and I'll accomplish the non-flying pilot duties..."

It's a little wordy, but believe me, my "brief" is a lot *briefer* than others...

At first it was strange for me to have both of my hands on the yoke while I was performing the takeoff--at other jobs, while the Capt still retained the sole authority to call the abort, the FO would *perform* it on his command.

But now, at this job, The Capt calls it, he performs it, and the FO never touches the power until after he calls for "climb thrust".

For me, that's a little different, but I've actually come to like it better. With some practice, the aborts in the sim go a lot smoother.

Good luck.