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How do you brief your departure?
- Thread starter MarineGrunt
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pilotpat
One in the Same
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PCL_128 said:
Do you think your right seater would really call out an "abort" for an EFIS message?? If so, then I'd wonder how that person made it through initial... Maybe I'm a little touchy on the subject since I am a right seater for now, but I think I'd know before V1 when a major item demands an abort. I can't tell you how many times in the sim the "captain" got chewed out because I called a "amber caution" that he ignored. Obviously, (I hope) someone wouldn't get their nad voice screaming over an "Inverter Fail" light...
TankerPuke
RALPHIE
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GRUNTer-
You're on the right track, so let me offer my 3$. Do whatever gets you through the SIM. Nod politely and say, "man, I never thought of it that way." Ask your flightline instructor how the evaluators (the ones that pass you and get you back home) want it done. Do what you have to do to get out of Altus, it's different in the real world.
As far as your unit (which I am very familar with...hehe) - there is a standard brief you will learn when you get home. Like I said - flightline instructor wants...flightline instructor gets.
Some thoughts - its the AC/CPT decision. I know you have more experience than some, but I personally don't want a NEW CP calling an abort at 125 knots (S1 140) for a TR FAIL or an OVHD CAUTION for a generator tripping offline. It would be like a new FO calling an abort for an EFIS COMP MON (as mentioned before) or ANTI SKID FAIL just prior or at decision in the RJ. I do know what you are saying though with an engine failure, but if I as the AC have your throttles for takeoff it will be pretty apparent as you start to tool off the runway centerline and I would abort anyway. Deal with this other stuff I mentioned in the air.
Grunt - I would trust you and I will when you get back. Just nod to the FS guys and get to the flightline. OK? Now get back to your Dash 1 studies...
PUKE
P.S. I am in the SIM at Fairchild with one of your FS instructors (Scott). Also, if you get a SIM FS guy with the intials of CH...call in sick.
You're on the right track, so let me offer my 3$. Do whatever gets you through the SIM. Nod politely and say, "man, I never thought of it that way." Ask your flightline instructor how the evaluators (the ones that pass you and get you back home) want it done. Do what you have to do to get out of Altus, it's different in the real world.
As far as your unit (which I am very familar with...hehe) - there is a standard brief you will learn when you get home. Like I said - flightline instructor wants...flightline instructor gets.
Some thoughts - its the AC/CPT decision. I know you have more experience than some, but I personally don't want a NEW CP calling an abort at 125 knots (S1 140) for a TR FAIL or an OVHD CAUTION for a generator tripping offline. It would be like a new FO calling an abort for an EFIS COMP MON (as mentioned before) or ANTI SKID FAIL just prior or at decision in the RJ. I do know what you are saying though with an engine failure, but if I as the AC have your throttles for takeoff it will be pretty apparent as you start to tool off the runway centerline and I would abort anyway. Deal with this other stuff I mentioned in the air.
Grunt - I would trust you and I will when you get back. Just nod to the FS guys and get to the flightline. OK? Now get back to your Dash 1 studies...
PUKE
P.S. I am in the SIM at Fairchild with one of your FS instructors (Scott). Also, if you get a SIM FS guy with the intials of CH...call in sick.
hobbsmeter
V-Speed Master
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MarineGrunt
Will kill for peace.
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Sheesh, you're more brave than I am. I sure as heck don't trust me!TankerPuke said:
I have CH tomorrow for the third time. Know of any bad Chinese places in Altus?TankerPuke said:
uke: He's not that bad really, I actually learned quite a bit from him. However, I'm interested to know the "story" so PM or email me when you get time.What??? You mean we're supposed to be reading that thing???? Uuuuuuum..... gotta go.... I have stuff to do!TankerPuke said:
Last edited:
mar
Remember this one?
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And now for something completely different
I think it's fairly standard to leave the decision to abort with the Capt.
That doesn't mean the FO sits there with their arms crossed.
But at my company, not only does the Capt make the decision but he performs *every* abort--no matter who the "flying pilot" is.
Obviously when the Capt is the "FP" he handles the decision, the power and the brakes.
But when the FO is the "FP", on takeoff, the Capt and FE will set the power. The Capt will release the brakes, the FO will steer with rudder and both hands on the yoke. The Capt keeps his hand on the power levers until V1 in case of abort.
On this part of the brief I say, "It's a right seat departure. We'll abort for any malfunction below 80 knots, between 80 knots and V1 we'll abort for engine failure, fires or inability of the airplane to fly, any malfunction after V1 we'll treat like an inflight emergency. If we need to make an immediate return the ILS to XX is in use, otherwise we'll need to dump. The Capt will perform the abort and I'll accomplish the non-flying pilot duties..."
It's a little wordy, but believe me, my "brief" is a lot *briefer* than others...
At first it was strange for me to have both of my hands on the yoke while I was performing the takeoff--at other jobs, while the Capt still retained the sole authority to call the abort, the FO would *perform* it on his command.
But now, at this job, The Capt calls it, he performs it, and the FO never touches the power until after he calls for "climb thrust".
For me, that's a little different, but I've actually come to like it better. With some practice, the aborts in the sim go a lot smoother.
Good luck.
I think it's fairly standard to leave the decision to abort with the Capt.
That doesn't mean the FO sits there with their arms crossed.
But at my company, not only does the Capt make the decision but he performs *every* abort--no matter who the "flying pilot" is.
Obviously when the Capt is the "FP" he handles the decision, the power and the brakes.
But when the FO is the "FP", on takeoff, the Capt and FE will set the power. The Capt will release the brakes, the FO will steer with rudder and both hands on the yoke. The Capt keeps his hand on the power levers until V1 in case of abort.
On this part of the brief I say, "It's a right seat departure. We'll abort for any malfunction below 80 knots, between 80 knots and V1 we'll abort for engine failure, fires or inability of the airplane to fly, any malfunction after V1 we'll treat like an inflight emergency. If we need to make an immediate return the ILS to XX is in use, otherwise we'll need to dump. The Capt will perform the abort and I'll accomplish the non-flying pilot duties..."
It's a little wordy, but believe me, my "brief" is a lot *briefer* than others...
At first it was strange for me to have both of my hands on the yoke while I was performing the takeoff--at other jobs, while the Capt still retained the sole authority to call the abort, the FO would *perform* it on his command.
But now, at this job, The Capt calls it, he performs it, and the FO never touches the power until after he calls for "climb thrust".
For me, that's a little different, but I've actually come to like it better. With some practice, the aborts in the sim go a lot smoother.
Good luck.
Lead Sled
Sitt'n on the throne...
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That may be true for some operations, but certainly not all. Many Part 91 corporate operators fly with two fully qualified type-rated guys up front who swap seats from leg-to-leg. This is the case in every Part 91 jet job I've ever had. Under those conditions it is perfectly acceptable for either guy to call the abort and to talk about why he did it after they have come to a stop.mar said:
'Sled
mar
Remember this one?
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tell me they'd rather have 180# more fuel than me on board.
Lead Sled
Sitt'n on the throne...
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