how do I rate

[mugsy]

New guy to the page. This is a great place for info. I have been in the Air Force 8 years and my time is coming to an end (stop loss?). Asking some pros on where I stand in the real world. I have around 1200 civ hours in cessnas, 1400 military time in B-1, B-2, and T-38. I have only about 500 hours PIC turbine time and I don't know if that is enough. My bonus and committment are both in Mar 03. Any advice? Also planning on going to Atlanta in July for Air Inc conference. Are these any good and should I have a resume handy. My problem with the resume is I don't have any of the ratings(ATP, FEw, etc.) should I go ahead and go and what about the resume. Not 100% sure getting out, but leaning on the fence.

Mugsy

 

[Draginass]

You probably won't be taken seriously by a major with only 500 hours of jet PIC. but maybe a regional . . . . if you want to work for their compensation. Looking at your aircraft flown, I'd question why you were so light on time after 8 years, and especially PIC. Looking at that, I'd guess that you never upgraded to instructor in a heavy. Not having your ATP on the resume will also cause the reader to wonder if you're really serious and probably cause it to get relegated to the circular file. The FE written is only useful if the company you're applying for has engineers - and the majors' 727s are going away VERY fast. These days with the UPT committment so long, I think more like 1500 hours PIC and instructor is the norm for heavy drivers leaving service at first opportunity, more of course for single seat fighters. Having done the B-1 and B-2 it would seem you steered your career path towards a USAF career and not optimized toward making yourself competitive for being hired by an airline. Staying in the USAF, and catching up on jet PIC would seem the right thing right now. In several years some serious retirement number in the airline industry start coming into play, and you may be well competitive then. At any rate, I thought the Air Inc conventions were good, expecially the military transition seminars.

A bit of a moot point right now anyway with the industry in the dumper and probably will be for a few years. If US Airways/and or Amer West don't make it, there will be even more better qualified pilots on the street. Fedex, SW, and JetBlue are hiring though.

 

[airgator]

b-1 units

Draginass or Mugsy-
I thought i read somewhere that the Geogia and Kansas ANG were getting rid of the B-1's. Do you know if there is any truth to this? I'd like to know what the deal is before i send out packets to them.

 

[Clownpilot]

Times

Submit applications to Southwest and JetBlue. Your times may not be completely competitive right now but it is good quality time and I think you're a reasonably qualified applicant.

The big three are a long way from calling back furloughed pilots much less hiring so those are your best options.

 

[Clownpilot]

PS

BTW, I think Draginass has mental problems. Ignore his attempt to belittle your qualifications. You are competitive to apply. Don't hesitate.

Some people have issues. Don't let theirs affect you.

 

[AlbieF15]

Clown pilot,

I think our B-1 driver had some valid points. As an AF guy and new hire airline pilot, my first reaction to Mugsy's post was "why so little PIC?"
This isn't a personal slam...but Mugsy better have some answers in an interview for that very question, if he can even get an interview with that PIC. Those times indicate someone who for whatever reason was very slow to upgrade. This can be due to personal, professional, or timing reasons...but the point is someone WILL ask some questions about "why".

My recommendation is to throw out apps anyway, then fly that T-38 (ACE program?) like it was going out of style to built some PIC. Mugsy..remember that "dual given" is PIC. Did you count that in your totals? Solo time in UPT won't count (student time), but your time at PIT may qualify. I never had to split hairs with flightime since I didn't leave active duty until the 14 year point and had some civilian time as well, but maybe someone with a similar background can give you some logbook ROE.

FYI...FedEx and JetBlue both require 1000 PIC. I believe SWA does as well.

 

[Draginass]

Georgia and Kansas are transitioning to other aircraft. Congress recently announced they are stopping the funding of a quite a few B-1s, downsizing the number of "funded" aircraft. I think the GANG is going to JSTARS. Don't know about the KANG. Maybe someone else has more current info.

Mugsy - You can put in your resume to anywhere you want, but that doesn't make you necessarily "competitive." It's important that you do what you're doing right now -- gain info and network with buddies that are in the industry and performing a realistic self-assessment of your competitive qualifications. Being a military pilot is a plus, but you've got to have the other normal prerequisites. Take a look at the Air INC magazine from a year ago or so on quals that hires had. I'll give you a good idea for how competitive you are. Remember, your paper qualifications, resume and recommendations get you an interview.

Take a week or two off in the next few months and knock out that ATP and FE written (for Fedex purposes). Try NOT and do it when you're down to the wire of getting out (like I did) - at that time you want you resumes in the mix, not waiting to get your ATP. It's not too hard, just takes a couple weeks of study and 3-4 flights in a twin at someplace like All ATPs (oh. . . and about $1500). Send me a private mail if you'd like my experience at this several years ago.

Don't be put off by Clownpilot's name-calling. There are fortunately very few of those types around in industry.

 

[mugsy]

thanks for the replies. i can take slams, god knows a military pilot has taken a few over time in debriefs. i just appreciate your answers. maybe i cut myself short a little, i was getting a feel for what you all thought. after reading some of the replies i started to really count my hours. was a bone driver and got 750 total with 300 pic. then yes i did get myself into a "career track" by going to the b-2. i got hired as 38 ip and have about another 300 hours pic. here is the problem, after all the time i spent in the bone, i was 2 weeks from cfic for the bone and went to pit then whiteman. spent a year as an ip in the 38. here we don't fly a whole lot. problem number 1. we get 60 sorties a year in the 38. i know that is terrible all the mil pilots are saying. hey it is a ctp program. the other problem is that we average 3 sorties a month in bongo deuce(b2). this is an average duration of 4 hours. math for the year is roughly somewhere around 200-250 hours a year if you are lucky to get. yeah i know the heavies and faips double that. problem 2. when i went through b2 training it was six months long and little time, but the problem was i was a pilot in the b2, not the mission commander(aircraft commander). frustrating because i was a captain doing second lt duties and logging basically secondary time. that is when i said @@@#, i gave alot up back where i was in the bone.just upgraded to ac and time building is slow. yeah made a bad decision, but i will learn someday. anyway wanted to put my "alibi" out there before i got any more "faceshots". thanks for the info

 

[ck130]

Mugsy,

My .02 for what it is worth is to get every block checked that you can, ATP, FEW, more PIC (oh my god I sound like Kit Darby), and then SIT TIGHT. Not much is happening right now so getting out would only be counter productive because you would go to the right seat of some regional if you are lucky instead of the high quality Mil PIC time your getting now. I also would NOT take the bonus. Let your obligation expire and then continue on as a free agent. That way when the hiring takes off again you can depart the Air Force on relatively short notice. On that same note bank as much leave as you can so you can time it right and be on terminal LV while your in class somewhere.

And last but not least, enjoy where you are at and what you are doing. We get so focused on landing that Airline gig that many of us forget the most fun you will ever have in an airplane is right now.


Fly Safe,
ck130

 

[Clownpilot]

THIS IS RIDICULOUS

I dint mean to offend anyone. But these guys are wrong. You don't have to continuously apologize for your lack of PIC time. They want to doom and gloom you for some reason I can't understand. YOU ARE QUALIFIED.

The airlines aren't looking to see if you have the most PIC time. They want to see if you are capable of being in charge of the aircraft. 500 hours is plenty. All your time is turbine and multi.

Don't listen to these guys. Apply now.

When I got hired I had about 3000 hours. I was probably high time military in the class. Many had far less time than you have now.

Once you are qualified your next step is to get good recommendations from other guys. Network your ass off with those who have jobs where you want to work. Your options right now are quite limited.

It's SWA, Jetblue, or the package carriers. Get some guys to make noise for you on the inside. A silent application will get very little play.

Don't apologize and don't listen to the naysayers. Network.

Now I'm not aware of any official minimum of 1000 hrs PIC anywhere (except maybe at one package carrier). If that's actually the case, well then theres not much you can do. But that seems ridiculous to me. Remember, right now they can make the mins whatever they want. Position youself for 2 years from now and take a job that will get you there.

thanks for the replies. i can take slams, god knows a military pilot has taken a few over time in debriefs. i just appreciate your answers. maybe i cut myself short a little, i was getting a feel for what you all thought. after reading some of the replies i started to really count my hours. was a bone driver and got 750 total with 300 pic. then yes i did get myself into a "career track" by going to the b-2. i got hired as 38 ip and have about another 300 hours pic. here is the problem, after all the time i spent in the bone, i was 2 weeks from cfic for the bone and went to pit then whiteman. spent a year as an ip in the 38. here we don't fly a whole lot. problem number 1. we get 60 sorties a year in the 38. i know that is terrible all the mil pilots are saying. hey it is a ctp program. the other problem is that we average 3 sorties a month in bongo deuce(b2). this is an average duration of 4 hours. math for the year is roughly somewhere around 200-250 hours a year if you are lucky to get. yeah i know the heavies and faips double that. problem 2. when i went through b2 training it was six months long and little time, but the problem was i was a pilot in the b2, not the mission commander(aircraft commander). frustrating because i was a captain doing second lt duties and logging basically secondary time. that is when i said @@@#, i gave alot up back where i was in the bone.just upgraded to ac and time building is slow. yeah made a bad decision, but i will learn someday. anyway wanted to put my "alibi" out there before i got any more "faceshots". thanks for the info