How do I get out of ALPA

[Freight Dog]

UALDriver... no I did not try talking directly to the ALPA legislative guys. The reason, and as naive as it sounds, was that I had faith in ALPA. I mean, I'm paying this organization an equivalent of a car payment.

To me, it simply didn't make any sense to run the multitude of polls if this change was absolutely imminent. If that was the case, why Blue Ribbon Panel, why the skewed polls, and even still after the results came back against supporting the change, fastrack this through against the wishes? If it was indeed gonna happen anyway, why jump through all the hoops and waste all that money? Perhaps managing expectations?

Despite of what you may think, I don't enjoy bashing ALPA and Prater on this forum, or anywhere for that matter. I'd much rather be celebrating ALPA successes. Unfortunately, not many of those around lately... at least not for the majority of its members no matter which way you slice it.

 

[Caveman]

The reason ALPA has a system in place that forces everyone to pay whether they want to or not is because they KNOW they can not deliver what they promise. If they were effective at what they are supposed to be about we'd all be lined up waiting to get in. The simple truth is ALPA's customers are in general very disappointed with what they get for their money and ALPA knows it. Instead of trying to make the customer happy they blame the customer.

If ALPA was such a great deal they wouldn't have to force membership and they wouldn't have to garnish our wages. ALPA, put your money where your mouth is. Let those that want to opt out, opt out. If you have such a great product most of your membership will stay. I'm betting it would be a huge exodus and that's exactly why it will never happen. ALPA knows they don't service their constituents so they resort to garnishment and the threat of job less to keep you paying your dues. There's zero incentive to be responsive to our needs. They get paid no matter what they do.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ah... so France is in violation of ICAO/UN treaty by still having age 60 rule in effect. Who is ICAO/UN to dictate laws in our country? Is your FOM more restrictive than FAR's? Think that's a good idea? Think there's a safety margin there?

The US is obligated via treated to conform to ICAO standards.

BTW... you're quoting an APAAD/SPC sponsored website.

I know... its has the pro's and con's. ALPA members are smart enough to know the spin..

UALDriver... no I did not try talking directly to the ALPA legislative guys. The reason, and as naive as it sounds, was that I had faith in ALPA. I mean, I'm paying this organization an equivalent of a car payment.

And what about the guys that had faith in ALPA to do what they wanted which was counter to your wishes...??

To me, it simply didn't make any sense to run the multitude of polls if this change was absolutely imminent. If that was the case, why Blue Ribbon Panel, why the skewed polls, and even still after the results came back against supporting the change, fastrack this through against the wishes? If it was indeed gonna happen anyway, why jump through all the hoops and waste all that money? Perhaps managing expectations?

Perhaps...

Despite of what you may think, I don't enjoy bashing ALPA and Prater on this forum, or anywhere for that matter. I'd much rather be celebrating ALPA successes. Unfortunately, not many of those around lately... at least not for the majority of its members no matter which way you slice it.

On the age 60 issue... I am not debating the actual law change. I am concerned with an aloof membership that believes ALPA is thier customized agent and when things go foul they cry out.

It is not that easy and black and white.

ALPA has leadership issues. But the membership has followership issues as well. I fear if I highlight the leadership issues, then the aloof membership will simply say.. "those are the problems, that is what has to be fixed, its not me.. its THEM!"

The reason ALPA has a system in place that forces everyone to pay whether they want to or not is because they KNOW they can not deliver what they promise.

Just like my taxes? W can't deliever in Iraq, yet I keep paying for it?

If they were effective at what they are supposed to be about we'd all be lined up waiting to get in. The simple truth is ALPA's customers are in general very disappointed with what they get for their money and ALPA knows it.

I agree. And I am working to change that. Not sure how successful I'll be... anyone want to help?

Instead of trying to make the customer happy they blame the customer.

Not sure ALPA blames the membership. I certianly do...

If ALPA was such a great deal they wouldn't have to force membership and they wouldn't have to garnish our wages. ALPA, put your money where your mouth is. Let those that want to opt out, opt out. If you have such a great product most of your membership will stay. I'm betting it would be a huge exodus and that's exactly why it will never happen. ALPA knows they don't service their constituents so they resort to garnishment and the threat of job less to keep you paying your dues. There's zero incentive to be responsive to our needs. They get paid no matter what they do.

If America was a great deal too.. people would pay thier taxes without obligation... this whole democracy and self government thing... it requires..... responsibility....

What responsibilities does the membership have?

 

[PCL_128]

The US is obligated via treated to conform to ICAO standards.

Come on Rez, you should know better than that. Any ICAO member nation can file exceptions to the ICAO conventions. All it takes is notification to ICAO. We are under no treaty obligation to conform to every ICAO standard.

 

[ualdriver]

UALDriver... no I did not try talking directly to the ALPA legislative guys. The reason, and as naive as it sounds, was that I had faith in ALPA. I mean, I'm paying this organization an equivalent of a car payment.

To me, it simply didn't make any sense to run the multitude of polls if this change was absolutely imminent. If that was the case, why Blue Ribbon Panel, why the skewed polls, and even still after the results came back against supporting the change, fastrack this through against the wishes? If it was indeed gonna happen anyway, why jump through all the hoops and waste all that money? Perhaps managing expectations?

Despite of what you may think, I don't enjoy bashing ALPA and Prater on this forum, or anywhere for that matter. I'd much rather be celebrating ALPA successes. Unfortunately, not many of those around lately... at least not for the majority of its members no matter which way you slice it.

May I request that you make a special effort to contact an ALPA legislative rep who is intimately familiar with exactly how the Age 60 thing came about? (easy for me as a UAL guy as we have good legislative guys who I can simply call/e-mail) I, like you, was very "annoyed" when Age 60 was changed, seemingly with ALPA's blessing. But I called my reps, talked to our legislatively committee, and did a little research on my own, and now I personally believe that ALPA behaved as they should have. I don't think the timeline has been accurately portrayed anywhere on this forum, and I think that's what Rez is trying to tell you.

Talk to them, post here what you've learned, and then if you still think ALPA failed you (and you still may), then flame away!

 

[PCL_128]

ualdriver, I talked with ALPA Legislative Affairs, including the senior lobbyists, I talked with many of the EC members, and I even talked to Prater himself. My opinion was unchanged. ALPA, and Prater specifically, acted inappropriately in this situation.

 

[30West]

Union or non union, what's really sad is that some of you guys couldn't even take Christmas Day off from arguing about it over the internet. Even laid up in some dirtbag motel on an overnight, there are still much better things to do.

 

[Caveman]

I am concerned with an aloof membership that believes ALPA is thier customized agent and when things go foul they cry out.

A lot of us aren't 'members'. We're hostages. We didn't choose to join your wonderful organization. We're were forced to.

Your comparison of ALPA membership to citizenship is very appropriate. Just like the governement you steal our money, spend it inappropriately, are unresponsive to the folks paying the bills and scold us for not doing our part when we complain that we're getting screwed.

I've been a member of AOPA for a long time. I voluntarily send them a check every year because they do an EXCELLENT job of advocating and lobbying on behalf of GA. Guess what Rez. They don't have to garnish my wages to get my money. Why? Because they are responsive to the will of the membership. They do what is best for GA. I'd have to look it up but I bet the staff payroll at AOPA isn't anywhere near what it is at ALPA.

The same thing applies to the NRA, AARP and a few other organizations.

Like I said in another thread I think ALPA does a fantastic job when it comes to advocating safety, aeromedical and legal issues. I like the idea they lobby the feds on our behalf and I would gladly pay several hundred dollars a year to an organization that does that kind of stuff. ALPA just sucks at being a labor union. There's too many conflicting interests in play and ALPA always defaults to where the money or potential money is. You asked for an example in another thread. How about AA-TWA? ALPA screwed TWA in hopes of wooing AA into the fold. ALPA should have went to the mat helping TWA pilots and they bailed on them. I'm not blaming AA pilots. Their union did their job and the reason it did is because it was an inhouse unit. It had one and only one responsibility and that was to look out for AA pilots. Until we decentralize the labor side of the house and have each pilot group work independently from National, ALPA will continue to divide and conquer it's membership.

 

[flygirlqt]

A lot of us aren't 'members'. We're hostages. We didn't choose to join your wonderful organization. We're were forced to.

Your comparison of ALPA membership to citizenship is very appropriate. Just like the governement you steal our money, spend it inappropriately, are unresponsive to the folks paying the bills and scold us for not doing our part when we complain that we're getting screwed.

I've been a member of AOPA for a long time. I voluntarily send them a check every year because they do an EXCELLENT job of advocating and lobbying on behalf of GA. Guess what Rez. They don't have to garnish my wages to get my money. Why? Because they are responsive to the will of the membership. They do what is best for GA. I'd have to look it up but I bet the staff payroll at AOPA isn't anywhere near what it is at ALPA.

The same thing applies to the NRA, AARP and a few other organizations.

Like I said in another thread I think ALPA does a fantastic job when it comes to advocating safety, aeromedical and legal issues. I like the idea they lobby the feds on our behalf and I would gladly pay several hundred dollars a year to an organization that does that kind of stuff. ALPA just sucks at being a labor union. There's too many conflicting interests in play and ALPA always defaults to where the money or potential money is. You asked for an example in another thread. How about AA-TWA? ALPA screwed TWA in hopes of wooing AA into the fold. ALPA should have went to the mat helping TWA pilots and they bailed on them. I'm not blaming AA pilots. Their union did their job and the reason it did is because it was an inhouse unit. It had one and only one responsibility and that was to look out for AA pilots. Until we decentralize the labor side of the house and have each pilot group work independently from National, ALPA will continue to divide and conquer it's membership.

Well said Sir. Very well said.

 

[Caveman]

Well said Sir. Very well said.

Thank you. I would have replied to Rez sooner but you distracted me with your moaning vs whining comment. My brain briefly went off in another direction. Kinda like Homer Simpson, "Hmmm, doughnuts...."

 

[flygirlqt]

Thank you. I would have replied to Rez sooner but you distracted me with your moaning vs whining comment. My brain briefly went off in another direction. Kinda like Homer Simpson, "Hmmm, doughnuts...."

I could have also mentioned a heaving chest for a visual picture but refrained. How is that for Brain lock?

Did you notice though that moaning comment went right over REZ's head?

 

[Caveman]

I could have also mentioned a heaving chest for a visual picture but refrained. How is that for Brain lock?

Did you notice though that moaning comment went right over REZ's head?

What.............? Oh, sorry........

Yeah, I did notice that. In fact I had to go back and reread the thread to see if he picked up on it somewhere else. It was a perfect opportunity to lighten the tone of the conversation and he completely missed it. He was too busy quoting the talking points from Herndon.

 

[kwick]

Quit, go someplace else!

 

[Turtle21]

Ok the age thing has passed

So, let's start a debate: What do you have to do to get out of the union?

ALPO and ALPOphiles are incurable. Its like a girlfriend with permanent cold sores. Love them or leave them.

Until you get a screwing like ALPO screwing like TWA, AA, or USAir then there won't be sufficient impetus to vote ALPO onto their a$$. The unwillingly ALPOphiled must have the majority to be successful. TWA didn't, American did, USAir might.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

ALPO and ALPOphiles are incurable. Its like a girlfriend with permanent cold sores. Love them or leave them.

Until you get a screwing like ALPO screwing like TWA, AA, or USAir then there won't be sufficient impetus to vote ALPO onto their a$$. The unwillingly ALPOphiled must have the majority to be successful. TWA didn't, American did, USAir might.

Nice:beer: