How big should a traffic pattern be, anyways?

[MD11Drvr]

I am not saying this to be upity or arrogant but I wish I had flown a small airplane recent enough to remember the pattern dimensions. Its my own fault, I mean I'm the one that has not won the lottery and gone back to flying for fun. I am a little jealous and it really does tell me I need to go rent a 172 soon and get reaqainted with fun flying...................

 

[Fly_Chick]

MD11 - may I suggest a Cub, or Airaile, or good ole C150? Add to that a 20 kt headwind on final... you will feel like you are on final for... well... forever! Yet by all means, absolutely fun!

I am waiting to win the lottery to fly the bigger planes .

 

[Illini Pilot]

downwind half way up the wing strut on a cessna, then turn base when the runway is a 45 deg. angle behind you leaves you right on a 1/2 mile base and (with appropriate wind correction on downwind and in the downwind to base turn) just about the right amount of time on base.

 

[NuGuy]

Its the way they were taught, and not all of the instructors teach wide patterns. Most clearly don't want to be 3 miles from the runway at night with a student....

GK is right. There was a running arugument on the AOPA board around a year ago. Their resident expert on all things aviation proclaimed that large, 747 patterns were the correct, FAA approved way of doing things.

The few that pointed out that they were trained to make the airport in case of engine failure were shouted down. Apparently the FAA wants nice, slow, configured aircraft thousands of feet up and miles away. The argument goes that there are more accidents from people hitting the ground trying to crank and bank their way into an unstabilized pattern than people who suffer from engine failures.

Personally, I trained at an airport surrounded by water on 3 sides. The water was filthy and polluted, and was 12 feet of water on top of 36 feet of mud. If you went in the drink, you'd get sucked into the mire before anyone would find you. Everyone had a vested interest in staying dry, so tight patterns were the norm.

Even with these "tight" patterns, things were nice, safe and stablized. Heck, in a 152, you practically had time for a smoke on the base leg, and this was with a 800 TPA, and you could still make the field if you engine couged. I don't really see where a huge pattern helps any, other than to pad the Hobbes.

Yet you go out to your local field these days, and there are all the aircraft doing dirigible sized patterns (about the same speed, too). Since this is what the FAA has blessed, I don't bother trying the change peoples minds anymore.

Nu

 

[banned username 1]

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You,

For having this discussion. I flew for years back east and never did I see patterns flown then, ('60s and '70s) like I see flown now. I was alway taught (and I taught) to fly a pattern that was a size that you could always make the field in case of an engine failure. Even if that engine quit at the most unopportune place within that pattern, at least be able to crash within the airport boundry if you screwed-up.

It's gotten to the point at my home airport that I'm considering going to one of the instructor meetings and pleading the case for tighter patterns. I pity the poor students who pay for two hours of dual and get about 7 or 8 takeoffs and landings. We used to get about 9 per hour "back in the day". They're doing their people a disservice.

A couple of weeks ago, I followed a pilot (don't know if he was a student or not) who was flying the flight school's 172. As he turned from crosswind to downwind about a little more than a mile abreast of the runway, I keyed the mic and said calmly, "where would you go if the engine quit right now?" There were a few seconds of hesitation on his part and he replied "who is this!" to which again, I calmly said "someone who cares about you". He said no more.

Thanks for this thread. I wish we could get some sort of reasonableness back into traffic pattern flying. Now let's talk about the other issue that hacks me off: being a radio announcer in the pattern rather than being a pilot. I even hear pilots announcing that they're repositioning to the gas pumps from the tiedown area. And how much attention from thinking about what you are doing in learning how to fly is being taken away by having to remember what to say on the radio??? And they get it wrong a lot of the time anyway!!

 

[erj-145mech]

I got frustrated one day and told the guy in the 152 that if his engine died about now, he'd starve to death by the time he walked back to the airport!

 

[kaj837]

Boy, this has always been my pet peeve. I spent alot of time instructing around busy, uncontrolled fields in the midwest and have actually been scared at times because we were so far from the field trying to follow some fool. I remember flying a Bonanza, following a guy in an Arrow once, he and I the only two in the pattern. He was probably 2 miles from the runway on downwind, and turned a mile and a half final. He was far enough out that I considered cutting in front of him, but didn't. I asked him on the radio why he was so far out, and he replied, "Hey, this is a high performance airplane, you know." Go figure.

 

[Fury220]

Just request initial, break, and perch. Piece of cake.

 

[minitour]

Even with these "tight" patterns, things were nice, safe and stablized. Heck, in a 152, you practically had time for a smoke on the base leg, and this was with a 800 TPA, and you could still make the field if you engine couged. I don't really see where a huge pattern helps any, other than to pad the Hobbes.
Nu

Yep...I don't get so flipped about getting behind someone on a 70-80kt downwind as I do on downwind following the guy on a 3 mile final who's been in the pattern for an hour with me.

Slow it down...it's fine. But keep it tight...makes everyone happy.

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

Yep...I don't get so flipped about getting behind someone on a 70-80kt downwind as I do on downwind following the guy on a 3 mile final who's been in the pattern for an hour with me.

Slow it down...it's fine. But keep it tight...makes everyone happy.

-mini

Slow and tight is ok. Slow and wide is "I wish I had sidewinders".