How big should a traffic pattern be, anyways?

[Immelman]

I was out practicing landings in the Citabria today and noticed something that really got on my nerves... but that I had slowly just come to accept as normal when flying aircraft like archers and 172s: The size of most folks' traffic patterns are pretty large these days.

Now I realize that faster aircraft will need more room, and I have no problem with that, but where I fly most traffic is of the C172/PA28/C150/AA-1 variety. I see most folks flying their downwind legs a mile from the runway, turning base another mile+ past abeam the numbers, it bothers me...you're doing between 60-80mph on final in these aircraft.. there just doesn't seem to be much reason to make things so huge. The practice increases the time spent in the pattern, puts them (and therefore me, when I have to follow) outside of power-off glide distance from the runway, and promotes pretty lazy turns (perhaps the lazy turns help make the wide patterns?).

I was taught from the school that advocated crisp turns - not more than 30 degrees bank, but no less either - at each corner, and no more time spent on base and crosswind legs than to roll out from the turn, check for traffic, and start the next one. This results in a pattern where you can bring the power back to idle on downwind and make it back to the runway without cutting things short, if you had to.

So, whats the excuse folks? Or is my method just stupid or dangerous?

 

[gkrangers]

My traffic pattern...whats a crosswind leg?

 

[flyboydk]

It gets really annoying when someone in a warrior is flying a huge pattern and must be thinking they are flying a 747... I mean I'm only flying a Citation and I can easily turn base a half mile past the approach end of the runway...

 

[minitour]

I like to fly (and teach) 1/4 to 1/2 mile in a 172...you can make it to any runway at any time...good stuff.

-mini

 

[darkvw]

they taught me a mile on base and final at my school, it was in the gliding range of the runway for the engine out proceedures

 

[cforst513]

don't listen to ANYthing a :uzi: riddle student/grad says... they got it ALL wrong. their patterns SUCK.

 

[minitour]

don't listen to ANYthing a :uzi: riddle student/grad says... they got it ALL wrong. their patterns SUCK.

nah...they've just gotta configure at Vref+10 by the maker/final...it's all good.

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

don't listen to ANYthing a :uzi: riddle student/grad says... they got it ALL wrong. their patterns SUCK.

Its the way they were taught, and not all of the instructors teach wide patterns. Most clearly don't want to be 3 miles from the runway at night with a student....

Yeah, it annoys me too sometimes...but I can't really take it out on the students.

The problem there is there isn't enough real world and real situation experience. Everything is so "canned".

Sometimes there is a need to fly a more unorthodox pattern...flying a faster final, or a very tight pattern due to other traffic or ATC instructions.

I think some of "them" struggle with stuff like that sometimes...someone is always holding their hand...

Did I mention I hate SLOW pattern flyers??

Lets do a 3 mile 70 knot final, yay!

 

[Fly_Chick]

I was taught from the school that advocated crisp turns - not more than 30 degrees bank, but no less either - at each corner, and no more time spent on base and crosswind legs than to roll out from the turn, check for traffic, and start the next one. This results in a pattern where you can bring the power back to idle on downwind and make it back to the runway without cutting things short, if you had to.

1/2 mile to 1/4 mile from runway is good.

The bank is going to depend on the winds. Do not limit yourself to a specific degree of bank. Let's say you have a right quartering headwind on the base leg, assuming right base. Your base leg take more time than what is alloted for rolling out of the turn, looking for traffic, and starting the turn to final. Remember the old rectangular course from Private days? Bank on the turns was constantly being adjusted due to winds.

You always want to be able to glide to the runway if you lose your engine once you reconfigure for landing.

I agree we cannot blame students, they are only taught what their instructor's know (and what their instructor's were taught). That is why it is so important to question anything. Even if it seems correct, question why it is being done. That is how we gain additional knowledge.

I was talking to someone yesterday with 25 years GA single engine experience. He was replacing strobes on his plane. Turns out whenever he flew he had every light on his plane turned on all the time (strobes, position lights, landing light for t/o and landing), everytime he flew. After asking him why, he said that is what he was taught. He never questioned the logic, nor the cost of constantly replacing lights.

 

[Immelman]

Good point about winds & bank angles, I forgot about that! Good to know I am not alone in wanting to fly the pattern close-in.