How big are tips in the frac industry?

[netjetwife]

I completely understand the phrase "red carpet treatment" and know exactly how it is applied at NJA. Other frac companies have something similar, I'd imagine. Now that we have that cleared up...

When it comes to frac pilots receiving tips the fact that some pax choose to show their appreciation that way is a reality. Just because it happens to be the NJ way doesn't make those who tip less appreciative of the special attention. Nor did the writers of etiquette rule books which advise travelers to tip pilots who perform duties above and beyond flying make an exception for those whose company requires it.

I agree that some pilots are more into going the extra mile than others are. Just like some pax are more interested in making sure they show their appreciation. Both situations are seen in the frac industry and that is the reality that this thread addresses.

What hasn't yet been mentioned is the fact that the NJ pilots themselves are expected to tip for service, as well. It is done to ensure that NJ planes receive prompt and efficient service. Who's to say that some of the tips given to frac pilots aren't handed over with the same motivation? Personally, I think that it probably just boils down to pax wanting the pilots to know that the red carpet treatment was noticed and appreciated.

 

[netjetwife]

...I was adequately compensated and considered myself a professional. I would have been insulted if any of my passengers had had the bad form and poor taste to offer me a gratuity.

Muddy `

Muddy, that is a personal opinion not shared by the professionals in the business of explaining etiquette rules. What the hard-working pilots see as just "doing their job" is perceived by some of the pax as extra attention that they would like to reward. It's really nothing more than a tangible way of saying thank you. After such helpful service surely you don't think that the grateful recipient would mean to insult you if they expressed their appreciation with a tip? Good manners--and a professional demeanor--dictates that pilots graciously accept tips so as not to embarrass their pax. After doing all those other courtesies I'd think that putting a pax at ease would be done without a thought--even if the pax chose to tip you.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

What hasn't yet been mentioned is the fact that the NJ pilots themselves are expected to tip for service, as well. It is done to ensure that NJ planes receive prompt and efficient service. Who's to say that some of the tips given to frac pilots aren't handed over with the same motivation?

Are you suggesting that I wouldn't provide prompt and efficient service if I wasn't offered a tip? That's pretty insulting don't you think?

The people that we tip count on part of their compensation being from tips. That is not the case for us.

Put me in the list of NJA pilots that politely refuse tips when they're offered.

 

[Ultra Grump]

This is probably one of the lamest arguments I have seen on the frac board. What is the point of arguing about this? The passengers will either tip you or they won't, and the only way to ensure you won't be tipped is to not properly do your job. If you are offered a tip and turn it down, you are an insulting ass. It has nothing to do with being a professional.

In my research on the tipping issue I learned that some doctors and lawyers have received "gifts" showing appreciation and though it isn't money they looked upon it as a "tip".

Along these lines, I will guarantee you (Diesel) that there is more than one AME out there that is "tipped" on a regular basis. Are they not professionals?

There is not one pilot at NJA who, after loading a planeful of bags on one end, then unloading them and carrying them to the SUV on the other, then watching the line guy get tipped for putting them in the back, could say they weren't a little peeved about that. It has nothing to do with professionalism, but more to do with recognition of hard work improperly directed.

My partner and I received a tip today. We did not do anything we would not do for any other passenger on any other flight. We graciously accepted it and went on with our day, without feeling any less "professional" for it.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ! (To quote a certain wise NJA'er)

 

[netjetwife]

Please don't misconstrue what I said. The pilots' motivation was never questioned; I simply pointed out that we don't know for sure why each person who tips might choose to do so. I then went on to say that I believed it was just to express appreciation, but it is feasible that some pax think it might guarantee quicker service.

Regardless of their reasons to extend a tip, I firmly believe that when it comes to their decision to do so the customer is always right. Those in the business of providing service should never insult and/or embarrass the client.

Put me on the list of those who would feel very uncomfortable should anyone I sought to thank with a tip refuse the well-intentioned gesture. It is entirely possible that your pax may feel the same way. Why risk that? It is also possible that you could discourage a practice that other pilots welcomed both for the recognition of their efforts and the extra money. (Put in order of importance.) Why do that to your fellow pilots? I suggest that those pilots who receive tips they don't want offer their share to the rest of the flightcrew and if it isn't wanted then make a charitable donation to a worthy cause.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

The passengers will either tip you or they won't, and the only way to ensure you won't be tipped is to not properly do your job. If you are offered a tip and turn it down, you are an insulting ass. It has nothing to do with being a professional.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ! (To quote a certain wise NJA'er)

It's you that's insulting (and apparently maintaining a pretty high level of rationalization to justify your actions). When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone.

It has everything to do with being a professional.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent post, UG!...

 

[netjetwife]

....When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone......

How would you know what the pax was privately thinking? I don't think for a minute that anyone in that position would add to the embarrassment of the situation by making an issue of it. If people didn't already find the question of when to tip rather confusing there wouldn't be books written solely on that very subject. Many such books are bought by people hoping to save themselves from the embarrassing situation you proudly create.... Here's an example of one of those books--

Tipping for Success: Secrets for How to Get In and Get Great Service by Mark L. Brenner,

and one of the reviews which illustrates my point.

Mark Kozak, Creative Director, Entrepreneur Magazine
Finally someone has written a book for all those road warriors who have always felt awkward about how to tip. This insightful book is a welcome relief. Now, you'll never have to shy away from these situations or feel embarrassed again...

 

[Diesel]

I find it pretty amusing that someone who so much wants to be part of a certain group or class in life also wants to have the exceptions and the handouts applied too.

Wp pretty much summed it up. I am disucssing real world experience to a monitor and keyboard. To someone that has only heard it in stories and read it in books. Can reference what we should do and shouldn't do by what mrs manners in the sunday paper says.

If you have seen the park scene in good will hunting with matt damon and robin williams you would understand the point I'm trying to make.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Did that movie ever get released in VHS form? I hear its pretty good. Can't wait to see it.

On another note.....can anyone tell me how to get the digital clock on my BETA machine from blinking?

 

[Diesel]

no but if you swing by deathstar aviation in pvd they have fletch on beta upstairs in the nasty smoke infested pilot lounge.

 

[NJAowner]

This whole thread, which seems to be a quarterly event, seems to get its momentum due to 2 assumptions in the argument.

1. The definition of the "NJA Pilot's job"-- is it (1) only what is handled while sitting in the cockpit, and everything else is above and beyond the job description, or (2) (which happened to be the argument used during the negotiations) the pilot is the face of NJA to the owners and probably the only NJA employee and owner will have direct personal contact with, and therefore responsible for all aspects of a safe and comfortable journey.

2. "Tips" -- are they (1) expected, commonplace and regular such as tipping a waiter ina restaurant, or (2) greatly appreciated when infrequently received.

A few other misconceptions:

1. The US Constitution while guaranteeing many rights and privileges does not guarantee the right to the job of your choice at a high rate of pay. Unfortunately, many people take jobs other than their first choice because they pay more. The limo driver may make more than the pilot but the certified trained mechanic who services the limo probably make more than both of them (at least in the Northeast). And a cocktail waitress in Vegas make more than all of them. How much do you pay the babysitter who may watch your children at times? -- this is one of the most important jobs there is - but they probably make less than the neighbor's son who shoveled your walk in the latest snow storm.

2. Limos. NJW has seen a few too many episodes of the Apprentice. I do not take a limo to the airport. (Usually we take the Rolls - unless I drive the Ferrari myself -- and have our huge domestic staff follow in a truck with all of our luggage).

3. Luggage. Why design, sell and fly jets with great luggage capacity if it is not to be used. Some people who need more luggage capacity fly a Citation or Gulfstream instead of a Hawker. Also, ease in amouts and types of luggage is one of the benefits of private aviation.

Fly safe.

 

[GVFlyer]

How would you know what the pax was privately thinking? I don't think for a minute that anyone in that position would add to the embarrassment of the situation by making an issue of it. If people didn't already find the question of when to tip rather confusing there wouldn't be books written solely on that very subject. Many such books are bought by people hoping to save themselves from the embarrassing situation you proudly create....

Let me answer for NJAFracpilot.

Hopefully, they are thinking the same thing that I would be thinking in that situation; that I had dramatically misjudged the situation, the nature of the service provided and the status of the service provider.

It is amusing how you tortuously attempt to twist etiquette rules for doormen and waiters into an appropriate behavior to reward trained professionals for doing the job for which they are already compensated.

It is demeaning and condescending.

 

[Ultra Grump]

It's you that's insulting (and apparently maintaining a pretty high level of rationalization to justify your actions). When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone.

And on the rare occasions when I've been offered a tip (no, they're not expected), I've said exactly the same thing, and then they in turn insist I take it. Should we just keep going back and forth?
"No, really, it's not necessary."
"Please, you and your partner enjoy a drink on us."
"No, we appreciate it, but it's not necessary."
"I insist."
At what point do you get off your professional high horse?

2. "Tips" -- are they (1) expected, commonplace and regular such as tipping a waiter ina restaurant, or (2) greatly appreciated when infrequently received.

#2. I do not expect to be tipped, but I am not offended if offered a tip.

2. Limos. NJW has seen a few too many episodes of the Apprentice. I do not take a limo to the airport. (Usually we take the Rolls - unless I drive the Ferrari myself -- and have our huge domestic staff follow in a truck with all of our luggage).

I think you misunderstand the NJA use of the word "limo." I'm sure you occasionally fly commercial, and have seen the "airport limo" services over there. How many of them are actually stretch limos? Very few. NJA's use of the word "limo" should be changed to "sedan." Typically a Lincoln Town Car, which pull up to our airplanes with owners and their luggage on a regular basis.

 

[NJAowner]

UG - I agree -- that if the owner insists, you should accept. You should not be offended. From her posts, I believe NJW feels that the tips shoul dbe expected, much like those for a waiter. In addition, while you and I understand the use of the word "limo", I get the feeling that she believes they are the long stretch ones.

Fly safe.