How big are tips in the frac industry?

[NJAFracPilot]

The passengers will either tip you or they won't, and the only way to ensure you won't be tipped is to not properly do your job. If you are offered a tip and turn it down, you are an insulting ass. It has nothing to do with being a professional.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ! (To quote a certain wise NJA'er)

It's you that's insulting (and apparently maintaining a pretty high level of rationalization to justify your actions). When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone.

It has everything to do with being a professional.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent post, UG!...

 

[netjetwife]

....When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone......

How would you know what the pax was privately thinking? I don't think for a minute that anyone in that position would add to the embarrassment of the situation by making an issue of it. If people didn't already find the question of when to tip rather confusing there wouldn't be books written solely on that very subject. Many such books are bought by people hoping to save themselves from the embarrassing situation you proudly create.... Here's an example of one of those books--

Tipping for Success: Secrets for How to Get In and Get Great Service by Mark L. Brenner,

and one of the reviews which illustrates my point.

Mark Kozak, Creative Director, Entrepreneur Magazine
Finally someone has written a book for all those road warriors who have always felt awkward about how to tip. This insightful book is a welcome relief. Now, you'll never have to shy away from these situations or feel embarrassed again...

 

[Diesel]

I find it pretty amusing that someone who so much wants to be part of a certain group or class in life also wants to have the exceptions and the handouts applied too.

Wp pretty much summed it up. I am disucssing real world experience to a monitor and keyboard. To someone that has only heard it in stories and read it in books. Can reference what we should do and shouldn't do by what mrs manners in the sunday paper says.

If you have seen the park scene in good will hunting with matt damon and robin williams you would understand the point I'm trying to make.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Did that movie ever get released in VHS form? I hear its pretty good. Can't wait to see it.

On another note.....can anyone tell me how to get the digital clock on my BETA machine from blinking?

 

[Diesel]

no but if you swing by deathstar aviation in pvd they have fletch on beta upstairs in the nasty smoke infested pilot lounge.

 

[NJAowner]

This whole thread, which seems to be a quarterly event, seems to get its momentum due to 2 assumptions in the argument.

1. The definition of the "NJA Pilot's job"-- is it (1) only what is handled while sitting in the cockpit, and everything else is above and beyond the job description, or (2) (which happened to be the argument used during the negotiations) the pilot is the face of NJA to the owners and probably the only NJA employee and owner will have direct personal contact with, and therefore responsible for all aspects of a safe and comfortable journey.

2. "Tips" -- are they (1) expected, commonplace and regular such as tipping a waiter ina restaurant, or (2) greatly appreciated when infrequently received.

A few other misconceptions:

1. The US Constitution while guaranteeing many rights and privileges does not guarantee the right to the job of your choice at a high rate of pay. Unfortunately, many people take jobs other than their first choice because they pay more. The limo driver may make more than the pilot but the certified trained mechanic who services the limo probably make more than both of them (at least in the Northeast). And a cocktail waitress in Vegas make more than all of them. How much do you pay the babysitter who may watch your children at times? -- this is one of the most important jobs there is - but they probably make less than the neighbor's son who shoveled your walk in the latest snow storm.

2. Limos. NJW has seen a few too many episodes of the Apprentice. I do not take a limo to the airport. (Usually we take the Rolls - unless I drive the Ferrari myself -- and have our huge domestic staff follow in a truck with all of our luggage).

3. Luggage. Why design, sell and fly jets with great luggage capacity if it is not to be used. Some people who need more luggage capacity fly a Citation or Gulfstream instead of a Hawker. Also, ease in amouts and types of luggage is one of the benefits of private aviation.

Fly safe.

 

[GVFlyer]

How would you know what the pax was privately thinking? I don't think for a minute that anyone in that position would add to the embarrassment of the situation by making an issue of it. If people didn't already find the question of when to tip rather confusing there wouldn't be books written solely on that very subject. Many such books are bought by people hoping to save themselves from the embarrassing situation you proudly create....

Let me answer for NJAFracpilot.

Hopefully, they are thinking the same thing that I would be thinking in that situation; that I had dramatically misjudged the situation, the nature of the service provided and the status of the service provider.

It is amusing how you tortuously attempt to twist etiquette rules for doormen and waiters into an appropriate behavior to reward trained professionals for doing the job for which they are already compensated.

It is demeaning and condescending.

 

[Ultra Grump]

It's you that's insulting (and apparently maintaining a pretty high level of rationalization to justify your actions). When offered a tip, I've been able to politely say, "Thank you, but that's not necessary" when declining to accept it without offending anyone.

And on the rare occasions when I've been offered a tip (no, they're not expected), I've said exactly the same thing, and then they in turn insist I take it. Should we just keep going back and forth?
"No, really, it's not necessary."
"Please, you and your partner enjoy a drink on us."
"No, we appreciate it, but it's not necessary."
"I insist."
At what point do you get off your professional high horse?

2. "Tips" -- are they (1) expected, commonplace and regular such as tipping a waiter ina restaurant, or (2) greatly appreciated when infrequently received.

#2. I do not expect to be tipped, but I am not offended if offered a tip.

2. Limos. NJW has seen a few too many episodes of the Apprentice. I do not take a limo to the airport. (Usually we take the Rolls - unless I drive the Ferrari myself -- and have our huge domestic staff follow in a truck with all of our luggage).

I think you misunderstand the NJA use of the word "limo." I'm sure you occasionally fly commercial, and have seen the "airport limo" services over there. How many of them are actually stretch limos? Very few. NJA's use of the word "limo" should be changed to "sedan." Typically a Lincoln Town Car, which pull up to our airplanes with owners and their luggage on a regular basis.

 

[NJAowner]

UG - I agree -- that if the owner insists, you should accept. You should not be offended. From her posts, I believe NJW feels that the tips shoul dbe expected, much like those for a waiter. In addition, while you and I understand the use of the word "limo", I get the feeling that she believes they are the long stretch ones.

Fly safe.

 

[glasspilot]

I don't really have a dog in this fight other than the fact that I like money, and tips are money in (good thing)

I provide the same service either way. I would never expect a tip.

That said I do remember one flight where the owner had a ton of bags. When we landed it was raining so I started bringing the bags to the SUV. There was a ramper who, I kid you not, was standing holding an umbrella open for no one (not even himself). He didn't help me with the bags and he didn't hold the umbrella over any of the pax who were waiting in the rain collecting their things. I made trip after trip in the rain for the bags and each time I'd look over and watch this guy just stand on the ramp holding an umbrella out to the side keeping a spot of asphalt dry. It was pretty funny to watch.

Well, after 6 or 7 trips to get all the bags into the car guess who gets a tip from the owners? Guess the pax really appreciated him keeping that portion of the ramp dry.

 

[NJAowner]

GlassPilot -- I will not even begin to defend or protect idiotic owners.

P.S. -- In that case I usually load the bags into the SUV while the pilot is in the cargo hold or on the steps and the co-pilot moves the bags from the pilot to the SUV.

Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

"Owner, I use the terminology that the pilots do and UG is correct that I'm actually referring to a sedan. I do not think that tips should be expected (that would be rude) and have also stated that in the past. I understand if the pax feel that the price paid is sufficient but some of the pax do choose to show extra appreciation. I am defending their right to do so without pilots getting offended and treating a well-meaning gesture like an insult to their professionalism. Clarification--I've never even seen one episode of the Apprentice and am unfamiliar with the show. I don't think frac pilots should be tipped just like waiters are, but it seems poor form to tip the taxi/sedan driver when the pilot carries the bags. I sympathize with those who feel the gratitude was misplaced and am happy for the pilots who are shown their service was appreciated--with sincere thanks alone or a tip. It's the recognition that counts most.

I have tried to explain that tipping frac pilots is entirely acceptable according to etiquette experts with the objective of dispelling the stigma/shame some have tried to attach to the practice. The tips are (for most pilots) an infrequent but pleasant surprise. I see no reason to mar a private exchange of good will by turning it into something less--as a few here are trying to do. Yes, red carpet treatment is part of the NJ experience, but if the pax wishes to tip then good manners and professionalism require the gesture be met with smiling acceptance--not second-guessing a voluntary decision. My "tip" to the pilots--just use the manners your mothers taught you...

GV, I didn't write the tipping rules I just looked them up and reported them. Those (few) of you offended by tipping are incorrectly assigning attitudes not expressed by me. I also seriously doubt that appreciative pax have anything but the best of intentions and I think their choice should be respected.

 

[gunfyter]

I am thinking about posting something Political or Politically Incorrect ... as a means of getting this thread tossed out of the Fractional section....

Hey -- it works in the crewroom on the IBT board.

 

[netjetwife]

Sorry we're boring you, GF. I've said all there is to say. Those who don't get it by now just don't want to so we can all agree to disagree and move on to something else. Feel free to change the subject.

I'm going off to do family activities now. Have a good weekend everyone....
NJW

 

[NJAowner]

Over and out.

 

[netjetwife]

"Owner, by "everyone" I mean the board members--readers and posters--not just the NJ pilots.
Regards,
NJW

 

[RTRHD]

Take the tip. Don't take the tip. WGAF

 

[Diesel]

I think njw is a dem

she wants a handout for doing the job shes paid to do.

political enough GF?

Hey -- it works in the crewroom on the IBT board.

yeah but njw can't post there. ahhh silence

 

[hawkerjet]

Part 91 operators have to be very careful regarding tips because owners can expense their tips and when they are reimbursed the papertrail leads back to the pilots. We had this instance happen to us a few years back. One passenger on our company aircraft tipped us then expensed it and when the company reimbursed him the brass found out, and we were told to never again accept tips because of potential tax problems. Kind of like a friend tipping you then getting reimbursed. It didn't go over well.