Honest question about ATP requirement

[Metro752]

This thread is rehashed here about every 6 months. RIckair777777777 is the only one who is mistaken. Everyone else has good info.


Flyer1015 -- ( you asked this question 2 months ago??)
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=133497&highlight=250+pic+atp

flya380
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=105751&highlight=250+pic+atp

ocp
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70605&highlight=250+pic+atp

Dufus1
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=60355&highlight=250+pic+atp



Oh, and a bunch of others that did not come up at the top of the results page when searching 250 atp pic.

 

[Flyer1015]

The problem is with the ICAO ATP standards which you actually need a certain amount of PIC which I believe is at least 150 hours.

Does someone have a link to ICAO ATP Standards? I've tried to find it, but can't. Anyone know the criteria for a ICAO ATP?

 

[higney85]

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:

(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time.

(2) 100 hours of night flight time.

(3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions, subject to the following:

(i) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(3)(ii) of this section, an applicant may not receive credit for more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator or flight training device.

(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) of this section if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.

(iii) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device, representing an airplane.

(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least --

(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and

(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.

(5) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.

(b) A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of night flight time to satisfy the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section; however, not more than 25 hours of night flight time may be credited in this manner.

(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane --

(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;

(ii) Engaged in operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter for which a second in command is required; or

(iii) That is required by the operating rules of this chapter to have more than one pilot flight crewmember.

(2) Flight-engineer time, provided the time --

(i) Is acquired in an airplane required to have a flight engineer by the airplane's flight manual or type certificate;

(ii) Is acquired while engaged in operations under part 121 of this chapter for which a flight engineer is required;

(iii) Is acquired while the person is participating in a pilot training program approved under part 121 of this chapter; and

(iv) Does not exceed more than 1 hour for each 3 hours of flight engineer flight time for a total credited time of no more than 500 hours.

(d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, "Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO," as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant:

(1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section;

(2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and

(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.

(e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40906, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-104, 63 FR 20288, Apr. 23, 1998; Amdt. 61-109, 68 FR 54560, Sept. 17, 2003]

 

[Flyer1015]

When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.

So if I read this correct, as long as you have 2,400 of SIC time, then you don't get the PIC restricted endorsement?

Because 50% of 2,400 = 1,200 hrs as required by ICAO.

Correct?

 

[CX880]

So if I read this correct, as long as you have 2,400 of SIC time, then you don't get the PIC restricted endorsement?

Because 50% of 2,400 = 1,200 hrs as required by ICAO.

Correct?

The rules might have changed, according to Rickair7777s post. Look for it. Under the old rules, you still need actual PIC. That's the whole reason why there were people buying 172 time to upgrade, it's not just SIC time.

 

[dojetdriver]

- It will not count for ICAO ATP PIC so you will not be able to upgrade if your airline flies international.

My company had more than a few that fell into said category, and they were STILL allowed to upgrade. The company simply kept them from flying into Canada and Mexico till they met the requirement.