Holly Hegemon's Blog on ILS 23 @ BUF, Safety & Colgan Crash

[ReverseSensing]

Interesting to hear that any autopilot will capture a G/S "before" it captures a LOC. The Bus will not.

Neither will the Q400.

And the only Q400 autopilot limitation regarding icing is that it is prohibited in severe icing. The NTSB jumped the gun on trying to imply that there was anything wrong with operating the Q400 in less than severe icing conditions with the autopilot engaged.

 

[IslandDriver]

RJACOBS,

I wish I was wrong but trust me...it will come out to be individual pilot error. I am sorry that is all I can say.

Enough Said.....you are right...let the NTSB figure it out.

ID

 

[rjacobs]

RJACOBS,

I wish I was wrong but trust me...it will come out to be individual pilot error. I am sorry that is all I can say.

Enough Said.....you are right...let the NTSB figure it out.

ID

If you are actually on one of the various AIB's or are party to the investigation(you are implying you are) you are completely in the wrong even being on here and making statements like this. That is the first rule of being on an AIB or being party to an investigation is to keep your damn trap shut in public, even if you know you figured it out because of a smoking gun. You are just as bad as the media "speculating" you know what happened.

 

[IslandDriver]

If you are actually on one of the various AIB's or are party to the investigation(you are implying you are) you are completely in the wrong even being on here and making statements like this. That is the first rule of being on an AIB or being party to an investigation is to keep your damn trap shut in public, even if you know you figured it out because of a smoking gun. You are just as bad as the media "speculating" you know what happened.

I am not on the investigation board. I just do not want CJC to get the blame for this. It is all a tragedy and it will hurt a lot more people that just the people who crashed. It seems like pilot error and pulling down other people for an individaul(s) error is not a good thing. We will never "really" know what happened...we should all look at it, study it, and make sure it never happens in our cockpits.

I was close to many of the people that are involved in the clean up...it will need clean up for a long time. We can all go back and see how it could have been avoided...but that will do no good. We all must learn from it and move on.

You are right...no speculation is good...but that is what we all do here in FI...it is also why I hardly ever write on this...and I will not ever do it again...

 

[flyburg]

The 737--unlike the EMB145 if I remember correctly--will capture a glide-slope and start descending even if it doesn't have a LOC capture.

Hi T&P,

The A/P on the 73 will most definitely not capture the GS before loc capture( it will, unlike some other types intercept a GS from above though after LOC capture).

However, depending on intercept angle and closure rate the A/P will go in capture mode quiet early. I believe it's even possible before the loc is alive on the instruments( not sure of that though, we usually have map mode displayed). Indeed, sometimes there will be a NOTAM warning of false glideslope or even false localizer capture beyond a certain localizer coverage. The best way to deal with that is to either use the VOR/LOC mode to capture the LOC and wait until the LOC pointer is centered before pressing APP, the other way ( in case of false loc readings as promulgated by notam) is to use the HDG bug to intercept the loc and then, when it is centered press the APP button.

I think this is what the SWA memo means.

Greetings

 

[Ty Webb]

The 737--unlike the EMB145 if I remember correctly--will capture a glide-slope and start descending even if it doesn't have a LOC capture.

Not the 737-700 . . . . dunno 'bout the rest.

 

[firstthird]

you guys need to read the whole thread. the 737 definitely will capture GS before LOC, depending on how your company has it set up.

just because yours doesn't or YOU haven't seen it, doesn't mean it won't do it. be careful extrapolating absolutes from small data sample sizes.

 

[ableone]

Interesting to hear that any autopilot will capture a G/S "before" it captures a LOC. The Bus will not.

"I don't know. There are plenty of pilots who push APP the minute they are cleared, despite being well outside the FAF. There are numerous airports where the practice will take you below step down fixes and yet pilots do it all the time."

I often push the APP button when a clearance is given, but again, the Bus will not intercept the G/S without the LOC being captured. However it will continue a descent if it is out of managed mode if V/S is selected or Open Descent is selected and the FAF altitude is set no matter how far out you are from the fix.

The bus used to do this as well. Most were modified at the request of customers.

 

[firstthird]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=121072

oops, was referring to this thread. titled something like SWA safety alert BUF ILS RW 23. that is the one where we all chatted about GS capture inhibited or not. sorry for the aspersions cast 2 posts ago. if you are interested, check the other thread though, many different guys have covered this ground quite thoroughly.

 

[Whine Lover]

Who cares what airplane does this or that?

Just hit the "App" button when cleared and if the jet ain't goin' where it's 'sposed too...just fly the damn airplane.


YKMKR

 

[starchkr]

Who cares what airplane does this or that?

Just hit the "App" button when cleared and if the jet ain't goin' where it's 'sposed too...just fly the damn airplane.


YKMKR

Ummm, i care! I like to know what my bird will and will not do. But i get the point of your post...and i agree, fly the plane first.

 

[Whine Lover]

There ya' go Star...Have an idea in yo' Haid...an' if the damn jet don't cooperate "Fly The Airplane".

Vagina talkin' on a website about "he-said-she-said-it do-dis-an'-dat" eats my Krank.

Love Bro. Peace am Dat.

YKW

 

[atrdriver]

Shouldn't be on autopilot, in icing, in a turboprop anyhow. Correct?

No, not correct.

 

[CitationUltra]

Redtailer:

I don't know. There are plenty of pilots who push APP the minute they are cleared, despite being well outside the FAF. There are numerous airports where the practice will take you below step down fixes and yet pilots do it all the time.

If there is something about this G/S that makes it unusual enough for Southwest to issue a memo on it, then it is well worth my time to consider.

There are air carrier procedures that specify that the APP function is selected at clearance, on the base leg of the approach--not at LOC intercept, if that is what you are implying is "proper" procedure.

 

[Whine Lover]

That was exactly the procedure for the 737 at the last place I worked.