Hold on tight

[Newkem]

Stay tuned

Is the other shoe about to drop? More at 11.

 

[AeroBoy]

Now that I've heard both sides of the story, it looks like the IBT 1108 pretty much killed the CitationAir deal. Kenn wanted to take care of "his guys" (i.e. Flight Options pilots) but the IBT 1108 wanted to take care of the Fl Ops and CitationAir pilots since it represents both. There would have been winners and losers under either plan, but Kenn would have made Fl Ops furloughed pilots the winners and all CitationAir pilots the losers. IBT 1108 would have made some CitationAir pilots the winners, and the rest of the CitationAir pilots along with all furloughed and about 50 currently flying Flight Options pilots the losers. Kenn refused the IBT's offer to integrate the CA pilots by DOH because he wouldn't put about 50 currently employed Fl Ops pilots on the street under this plan. I have to question why the Fl Ops MEC allowed it to prioritize non-Fl Ops pilots over its own members. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Fresh Air]

Now that I've heard both sides of the story, it looks like the IBT 1108 pretty much killed the CitationAir deal. Kenn wanted to take care of "his guys" (i.e. Flight Options pilots) but the IBT 1108 wanted to take care of the Fl Ops and CitationAir pilots since it represents both. There would have been winners and losers under either plan, but Kenn would have made Fl Ops furloughed pilots the winners and all CitationAir pilots the losers. IBT 1108 would have made some CitationAir pilots the winners, and the rest of the CitationAir pilots along with all furloughed and about 50 currently flying Flight Options pilots the losers. Kenn refused the IBT's offer to integrate the CA pilots by DOH because he wouldn't put about 50 currently employed Fl Ops pilots on the street under this plan. I have to question why the Fl Ops MEC allowed it to prioritize non-Fl Ops pilots over its own members. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Sounds like you only heard the FO management's side of the story, my friend.

The 1108 could not and did not kill that deal. That decision was in the hands of FO management alone. They could have done it as planned, with or without the approval of the 1108, as they have done with every other business decision that they have ever made.

The truth is, Kenn and Co. knew from the start that taking the CA planes without the pilots was illegal under McCaskill-Bond, and would not stand up in court. So they asked the 1108 to sign a LOA waiving their right to test the legality of the deal in court.

When the 1108 leadership refused to sign off on his illegal transaction, Kenn killed the deal.

 

[gunfyter]

So this is better for everyone? Everyone stays on the job?

 

[luckydog]

So this is better for everyone? Everyone stays on the job?

The FLOPS guys are still on furlough and the CA guys are still on the block waiting for the axe to drop.

It's more like everyone loses, even Kenn.

 

[Fresh Air]

It's more like everyone loses, even Kenn.

For what little my opinion is worth, I think Kenn is a big winner here. The whole mess has caused enough of the FO pilots to turn against the 1108 that the "in house union" movement has picked up considerable steam, and Kenn's goal of crushing the 1108 may soon be a reality. As a matter of fact, one of the organizers called me on the phone in the past week.

It was a smart move by Kenn. If the 1108 had signed off on the deal he would have looked like a hero to the furloughed FO pilots, and the 1108 would be facing legal action for failing to represent the CA pilots. As it turned out, the 1108 looks like the bad guy to a lot of our crews and the 1108 may soon be replaced by a "rubber stamp" union.

 

[doh]

Ricci was trying to transfer the risk of a lawsuit to the IBT. It's really that simple. Now he will tell the furloughed the IBT is responsible for breaking the deal. Transfer risk, divide and conquer. Don't be distracted form that fact.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Is it really about the Furloughed FO pilots? I'm sure most if not all those 85 guys left and have moved on. There's more to this story. Pilots her on Flightinfo only have about half the facts. Even if this works out in some way, shape, or form. I'm pretty sure all the CA Pilots are just plain fed up! We would all walk away tomorrow if offered a position with another company. This has turned into real amateur hour on behalf of management and IBT. Great group of people, it's just a Damn shame.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Regardless of the applicability of MB in the proposed FlOps / CA deal (which IMHO doesn't apply to 135 on demand ops. It will have to be challenged in court to vet the intent of the law...but I digress...) the big problem with the 1108 has exposed. They can not, effectively, represent 2 or more competing pilot groups. Their choosing to pursue other pilot groups serves only the best interest of the IBT 1108 - NOT the pilots themselves. Say want you want about Kenns divide and conquer techniques, the 1108 have shot themselves in the foot here.

 

[AeroBoy]

Regardless of the applicability of MB in the proposed FlOps / CA deal (which IMHO doesn't apply to 135 on demand ops. It will have to be challenged in court to vet the intent of the law...but I digress...) the big problem with the 1108 has exposed. They can not, effectively, represent 2 or more competing pilot groups. Their choosing to pursue other pilot groups serves only the best interest of the IBT 1108 - NOT the pilots themselves. Say want you want about Kenns divide and conquer techniques, the 1108 have shot themselves in the foot here.

Bingo! One union cannot represent competing pilot groups.

Fresh Air, I said I talked to both sides. I did in fact hear the 1108's side, and from someone pretty high up in the organization. Right or wrong, the 1108 wouldn't budge on the issue, but it was this action that caused the deal to be spiked. Kenn just walked away when he realized that the union couldn't/wouldn't work with him.