Hold on tight

[outerfix]

Dash, it's ironic that you should mention the American/TWA integration because while the methodology was different, A FO/CA integration under Teamster merger policy yield almost the same result as American/TWA. A few CA pilots scattered in at the bottom of the Capt. list and the rest slotted near the Bottom of the Seniority list.

 

[jetwash]

You all seem to be assuming that Flight Options is going to buy/ merge the two companies.

With the announcement that CS was getting out of the frac business I see FO as snooping around looking at what contracts they can take over. I would expect it of Netjets being able to buy Flex and CS at the same time but I don't think Ricci is that strong to do it.
Flight Options might buy a few airplanes and a few contracts but if they don't take the whole company is it considered a merger?

 

[Praetorian]

I think it's interesting that this deal hasn't even been done and the pilot groups are already being played against one another.

Make no mistake, its happening for a reason. If we let them do this to us we will all suffer. It's a very simple equation. The union is out to protect the pilots. The company is out to make money off the pilots.

Anything else you think you know is a distraction from those facts.

 

[doh]

Since DAC has a charter operation, do they use them exclusively for charter selloff during peak demand periods? That would seem to me to be an immediate efficiency they can realize by buying us.

 

[jetwash]

Since DAC has a charter operation, do they use them exclusively for charter selloff during peak demand periods? That would seem to me to be an immediate efficiency they can realize by buying us.

I think it is only a broker and aircraft management company. I don't think they have their own aircraft or pilots. Flight Options has been doing lots of flights for Setient since our aircraft are cheaper then outside vendors. Only when we can't do it is it then sent to a charter operation.

 

[outerfix]

Jetwash, I think the bar was set pretty low and a precedent was set with Midwest/ Republic. There was NO transfer of certificate or any planes. I would assume that the attorneys working on a sale of an airline would be aware of McCaskil-Bond and the Midwest verdict but I am constantly amazed at how little "experts" know. I would not surprise me to see a deal with no pilot transfers followed by a lawsuit and then a pilot integration.

Praetorian, I don't think anyone is being pitted against anyone. We Know SOMETHING is going to happen and we are formulating a strategy for possible outcomes. As i have said before I'm not opposed to the Teamsters, I'm opposed to what Teamster merger policy would do to the CS pilot group in the event of a merger with Flight Options.

I consider decertifying the Teamsters the Nuclear option. I would much prefer for the Teamsters to review their merger policy and make changes. My second choice would be to oppose single carrier. I think the case for single carrier is strong and I don't think The Teamsters have any inclination to review anything so we are left with two guys with two keys in a bunker.

 

[NJAowner]

Pilot vs Pilot vs Pilot

I think it's interesting that this deal hasn't even been done and the pilot groups are already being played against one another.

Just as an observer here, and using the "facts" ("facts" -- defined very liberally) here on flightinfo, it does not look like anyone is "playing [the pilots] against one another", as it does not appear that the new company has done anything with regard to the pilots. It appears to be just pilots trying to guess what the future could be and playing off against each other.

 

[jetwash]

Jetwash, I think the bar was set pretty low and a precedent was set with Midwest/ Republic. There was NO transfer of certificate or any planes. I would assume that the attorneys working on a sale of an airline would be aware of McCaskil-Bond and the Midwest verdict but I am constantly amazed at how little "experts" know. I would not surprise me to see a deal with no pilot transfers followed by a lawsuit and then a pilot integration.
.

First of all I would welcome a merger or Flex, CS and FO. I think that it will be good in the long run for all the frac pilots no matter what company you come from.

My question was how would it be handled if FO only wanted one type of aircraft.

Who in CS would go? Would it be the pilots already flying that aircrAft or would it go by seniority? Would the low seniority go or the high senority?
I know this is a hypothetical question but this whole discussion is hypothetical until some sort of announcement is made.

 

[Praetorian]

Just as an observer here, and using the "facts" ("facts" -- defined very liberally) here on flightinfo, it does not look like anyone is "playing [the pilots] against one another", as it does not appear that the new company has done anything with regard to the pilots. It appears to be just pilots trying to guess what the future could be and playing off against each other.

There is a deeper game. Who do think is feeding some of these guys all the misinformation about M.B.?

 

[outerfix]

Pratorian, no one is feeding me anything. I was completely on board with the Teamsters until a couple of months ago when an fo i was flying with said we were going to be pieced out. I started doing independent research and my jaw just about hit the ground when I saw where we would end up if we were merged with Options. Neither fair nor equitable. Can you factually dispute anything I have said?

Jetwash, we have "heard" that Cessna is going to pay an unbelievable sum to off us and that it's for the whole enchilada. My understanding of the contracts is that Cessna can't just assign someone else to manage the owners planes. Each and every contract would have to be opened up and re-written. Maybe NJA owner can chime in. My opinion is that the entity CitationAir would need to be around to service the contracts and the entire seniority list would transfer with that entity.